Couriers using subbies addresses as their address

Theres a practice of using subbies addresses around the country to secure either local listings on Google or Yell.com listings. Does this come as a shock to anyone?

I have no idea whether the subbies are aware of this practice, maybe some are ok with this because they'll hopefully get the work?

Anyone know if your address is being used? Go to either Yell or Google site and search for couriers at your postcode.

MK Bikes said:

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Theres a practice of using subbies addresses around the country to secure either local listings on Google or Yell.com listings. Does this come as a shock to anyone?

I have no idea whether the subbies are aware of this practice, maybe some are ok with this because they'll hopefully get the work?

Can't say I'm very surprised. I suspect subbies are aware? When we submitted mtvan's address we had to wait for a postcard to come from Google with a verification code on it.

I guess (providing subbies do know) that it depends on whether you want to support the courier company that uses you or not.

It's certainly something we do and we certainly do get permission. The Google postcard goes to the couriers address anyway, so we can't activate anything until they receive it and pass the PIN code to us. When a courier signs up with us we ask them to agree to the following question:

I consent to courier expert using my address to place Yell/Google directory adverts. By registering with Yell/Google, we will create more bookings in your area, which means more work for you.

Obviously they are creating more potential bookings around their own area, so no one objects to it.

I don't get why any courier would agree to this, to have someone else tout for work in your area?

I know you'll say "they'll get 1st choice of any work" but they'll be getting it at your rates, not theirs... And if one of your own drivers is in that area the subbie won't be your 1st choice.

I don't like the practise, and I doubt google would either... It may or may not be against the rules, but it smells a bit to me... Doesn't sit well at all

Rob, i'm with you on this, there are two companies who do this if you google couriers Leyland, they are both Southern Courier companies, you can say well it's business but it gets on my wick, bet these companies who do this would moan like hell if you did it in there area, should not be allowed.

Why would a courier agree to this? I believe i can answer that question. A courier has a couple of choices when they join us, they take any work from us when it comes along and also advertises their services direct to customers as well. Or, they choose to act as a sub-contractor only, preferring someone else to handle all enquiries, quotes, bookings, credit risk, customer service and everything else that goes with it. And that is the service we offer, we use the couriers address to advertise that we have a courier available in a particular area, we do all of the above and the courier does the pick up, it's a business arrangement and the courier get's his/her cut out of it.

Well Google certainly doesn't agree with you

http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en-GB&answer=107528

Courier Expert said:

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It's certainly something we do and we certainly do

And seeing as you have admitted to it I found 106 Google local listings for you

OK, i just had a read of that and thank you for bringing it to my attention. It does look like we might have a bit of tweaking to do to make sure we stay within the rules. I'm looking into it.

I very much doubt it's come as a surprise, more of a surprise perhaps, that your practise has been highlighted my someone on here

That's hardly fair considering it was never a secret, we actually advertise the this to potential couriers as a benefit of joining us, so why would you imply my company has been exposed as if it were something we were up to on the sly?

Seeing as its quite a lot of work to correct these listings, I would urge everyone to assist Andy by...

[Admin edit: you may continue to express your disapproval here, within reason, and Courier Expert may defend himself, but please do not use this forum to prosecute a campaign of activism against him.

General reminder to all: This forum is moderated to allow all readers and participants to see news, facts, opinions, information, techniques and experiences that they may find useful interesting and entertaining, strictly without rudeness, undue confrontation, or damage to anyone's legitimate business or personal reputation or to the mtvan brand].

Andy just visited your site. Sorry but I can't afford £57 joining fee or £3 per week but if you need any help in fulfilling your workload I'm available through mtvan.

MK - Thank you for your offer courteous offer of help, but i think we can manage without your assistance. Thanks anyway :o)

AM-PM, you don't have to join us but we do post most of our overflow work on CX, not sure if you are a member or not. We do occasionally post work on mtvan and if we could auto-post on here, there would be a lot more. Maybe that's something they could look into, i did ask the question last year but didn't hear anything back.

So does that mean those couriers that are listed in those locations because they don't mind because they get extra work, have to pay £57 for the privledge, interesting.

Thnx but can't afford Courier Exchange or run around at 50pplm for the jobs that are on there (from what I can gather)

AM-PM Despatch said:

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Thnx but can't afford Courier Exchange or run around at 50pplm for the jobs that are on there (from what I can gather)

What planet are you living on?

Every site has its good payers and bad payers, those that pay quick, those that pay on time and those who pay late.

Just by joining an exchange doesnt guarantee any work, but it does connect you with those already in the business, who do have overflow work and yes SOME do pay a very decent rate and pay quick. Dont tar everyone with the same brush just because they belong to certain sites !!

Whether that be mtvan, Courier Exchange, shed etc etc -

Sorry, but why does every discussion on mtvan always end up with how much people pay, this topic is far too interesting to talk about rates, so please take your talk about money elsewhere, thanks.

No lets set rates aside for the moment but what is interesting is how mtvan & Courier Exchange feel about what is essentially a trade exchange being members of their exchanges?

MK Bikes said:

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No lets set rates aside for the moment but what is interesting is how mtvan & Courier Exchange feel about what is essentially a trade exchange being members of their exchanges?

Do we or Courier Exchange have another exchange as a member?

Are you referring to Courier Expert, MK?

Last time I looked, I decided it was a courier company?

@Courier Expert, I'll dig out our API documentation again, and send it over. Give me a week or so.

We currently auto-post into Twitter by email and this is also how we auto-post into our own members area, it's just a case of matching what goes in the subject line and body, to where it is being sent. Also, the new CX site is going to allow auto-posts from companies like Journease (who we use to generate our bookings). Can MTVan possibly connect with Journease?

He says himself he runs a freight exchange and that shed5 is direct competition.

The courier expert wrote.

in this case a direct competitor who runs a Freight Exchange, similar but albeit a lot smaller scale than mine

@CourierExpert Could you get your contact at Journease to get in touch?

I was actually referring to Shed5 being the freight exchange and i said we are similar but... Well you can read it above. Here's what we say on our own website, FAQ page:

Are you like a Freight Exchange?

We are actually quite different from most freight exchanges or a courier exchange, the main difference is that we put our own work on the live job board, from our own customers who pay us to do their deliveries. This means that we pay you ourselves – rather than you having the hassle of chasing different customers for payment – ask anyone who has tried looking for their own customers, it can be hard work!

http://www.courierexpert.co.uk/courier-work/faq/

I acknowledge the lines are blurred, but the key difference is that we have our own work and there is no facility for courier companies to post trade work within our network. We do not wish to compete with Courier Exchange or MT Van, we want to work with them to cover our overflow work.

OK, i'll have a word with Journease. How do you want them to get in touch with you?

07725 750103 or tim@mtvan.com whichever suits. Thanks.

So the benefits chart that you sell your business off the back of is incorrect?

"Post Your Return Journey: Advertise your journey and get return work from us and other network members"

"Regular Work Postings: From other Courier Companies - Hundreds of live job postings for owner drivers each month"

"Live Courier Chat: Network with other couriers,a great way to get your name out there and build up your work portfolio"

http://www.courierexpert.co.uk/benefitschart.pdf

Sounds like an exchange to me, especially as you have to pay to join.

I may be wrong more of a freight forwarder?

mtvan.com Ltd said:

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Are you referring to Courier Expert, MK?

Last time I looked, I decided it was a courier company?

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@Courier Expert, I'll dig out our API documentation again, and send it over. Give me a week or so.

Which courier charges a periodic fee to the people whom receive work from it?

Courier expert site has had more updates today than the speaking clock

My answers below:

So the benefits chart that you sell your business off the back of is incorrect? The benefits chart was removed some time ago, not sure where you got it from but let me know and i'll remove it.

"Post Your Return Journey: Advertise your journey and get return work from us and other network members" This is no longer available, but it was really intended for us to know where couriers are, in order for us to match up a return job.

"Regular Work Postings: From other Courier Companies - Hundreds of live job postings for owner drivers each month" We bring to the attention of our couriers, any adverts from courier companies looking for regular owner drivers. It's a bit like a vacancies board. There is no opportunity to post trade work (deliveries).

"Live Courier Chat: Network with other couriers,a great way to get your name out there and build up your work portfolio" Yes, there is a chat room. They can say to each other what they want, within reason.

MK - Although we are not an exchange, the running costs are similar. I employ people to answer the phone to drivers, check their documents and we invest some of the fees into our advertising budget. We could of course sub all our work out on exchanges for less money, with no running costs, but i decided i wanted my own network. If someone does not want to join, that's fine. They can bid for the overflow work on the exchanges, i have no problem with that.

AM-PM: I like to think we are unique :o) But some people have likened us a Freight Forwarder or Clearing House. I just call it a membership with access to courier work.

How long ago is some time ago, it seems only recently you've become an expert?

Although that qualification answer is still yet to come.

MK Bikes said:

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mtvan.com Ltd said:

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Are you referring to Courier Expert, MK?

Last time I looked, I decided it was a courier company?

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@Courier Expert, I'll dig out our API documentation again, and send it over. Give me a week or so.

Which courier charges a periodic fee to the people whom receive work from it?

My question was more for the Admin, you'd call white black if it suited you

Good on you Courier expert, petty jealousies are easily arisen on sites like this :-) I bet there are thousands of couriers around the country wishing they had thought of your idea, keep going mate good luck and long may you continue.
Les

Hi Les, Thanks for the positive message.

LOL Thats a corker

I am a memeber of CRV, happily.

Please to hear it :o) What's your driver number?

Obviously suits some, but my van doesn't move for 60pplm. At that price just makes other people rich while wearing my van out. Need at least 78pplm doing 75k a year to earn minimum wage.

AM-PM: What van do you have?

MK Bikes said:

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Seeing as its quite a lot of work to correct these listings, I would urge everyone to assist Andy by...

[Admin edit: you may continue to express your disapproval here, within reason, and Courier Expert may defend himself, but please do not use this forum to prosecute a campaign of activism against him.

General reminder to all: This forum is moderated to allow all readers and participants to see news, facts, opinions, information, techniques and experiences that they may find useful interesting and entertaining, strictly without rudeness, undue confrontation, or damage to anyone's legitimate business or personal reputation or to the mtvan brand].

I'm not even gonna waste my time replying to this

There is a business model out there wherby you pay a fee, get to be a "member" of a company that uses your address as its own, then touts in your area. Any work subsequently got is then either given to you or to someone else on an exchange site and at a subbie rate.

So instead of you yourself touting for work in your own area, for which you would charge a decent proper rate, you pay someone else to give you the same work for 30% less

I call that a con, you can call it whatever you like

I believe i already addressed this point earlier, but here it is again in case you missed it:

A courier has a couple of choices when they join us, they take any work from us when it comes along and also advertises their services direct to customers as well. Or, they choose to act as a sub-contractor only, preferring someone else to handle all enquiries, quotes, bookings, credit risk, customer service and everything else that goes with it. And that is the service we offer, we use the couriers address to advertise that we have a courier available in a particular area, we do all of the above and the courier does the pick up, it's a business arrangement and the courier get's his/her cut out of it.

I call it offering a genuine service for couriers who wish to be an 'owner driver only'.

The key point is, they have a choice. If a courier wishes to tout for business, as well as taking any sub-contract work from us, then they can do that and we are completely fine with it.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I call that a con, you can call it whatever you like

I wouldn't, not exactly.

Con: to swindle or defraud. And defraud: deprive of by deceit.

I can see why you might not want or like Courier Experts business model (especially if you're the sort of person who wants to directly deal with your customers), but to me it doesn't look like he's tricking anybody into anything.

I suppose on the other hand I can see why his business model might appeal to a driver who just wants to drive and not have to worry about customers, billing, and all that?

[Edited for accuracy]

I didn't miss it, i did, however, choose to voice MY opinion as to what my thoughts are on the subject. How on earth can a courier do both when you would both be touting for the same work?

You can't

What you do is offer work at a reduced rate, and expect them to pay you for the priviledge, and to distribute your sales literature in the process.

You really couldn't make it up

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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There is a business model out there wherby you pay a fee, get to be a "member" of a company that uses your address as its own, then touts in your area. Any work subsequently got is then either given to you or to someone else on an exchange site and at a subbie rate.

So instead of you yourself touting for work in your own area, for which you would charge a decent proper rate, you pay someone else to give you the same work for 30% less

I call that a con, you can call it whatever you like

Not only do I agree with you Rob, but it also drives prices down, pushes the smaller business's who are on google to another page so the customer doesnt find them, therefore possibly putting the smaller business who is struggling to make ends meet because hes being outpriced.

With all these adverts on the internet, this is pushing local business's down the list.

Ok, I have an idea why don't you give somebody on here a months free trial, after that month they can write a report/testimonial about you, it might work out has a good thing for some people, if you sales patter is correct it should be worth somebody paying the £57 and £3 a week, lets set all the doubters mind's at rest, I'm getting a new small van beginning of May so why not use me, I would give it a honest and fair report, you never know I might sign up, cheers Gary

This thread has gone as far as it can.