Large van v small van

Running a small van v running a large van, and the rates, looks to me better to run small, any views on this subject?

It all depends on what goods your customer requires delivering!

I agree Rapid but I am thinking more of the costs, miles per gallon, wear, v the rates you can get,

I cant get 4mtrs in a small van

Well if it was a fight then my money would be on a large van, cos it's bigger

If it was based on work then for my business, it would be small van cos 99% of mine is... Can't speak for others mind

If its purely on cost then small van is cheaper to buy, run, and insure on the one side, but runs at approx 30% less when charging for it to a customer. If most of your work is small stuff then for the odd time a large one is needed, perhaps you could sub it out instead on an exchange site like this one?

Our busiest couriers run what we call a ‘Midi Van’, such as a Peugeot Expert / Citroen Dispatch. It's economical enough to do small van jobs, yet it also carries 2 pallets, so can compete for transit work too.

I also have the philosophy that you can get a small item in a larger van, but you cannot get a large item in a smaller van.

I think the larger the van (up to a point) gives you more flexibility, especially for return loads where the fuel cost of the journey home is already accounted for, therefore you can take an envelope in a homeward direction in a big van, and still make a profit.

Thanks guys, my main concern is the empty mileage, all great if you get a return,

You going to get empty mileage whatever you run it's just a fact of life work on not getting a return load and then see if its worth while

I agree, return loads should never be a part of anyones equation when budgeting. If you get one then great, but to expect one is unrealistic. Mind you if you are working out costs etc, you'll be well ahead of an awful lot of couriers who clearly don't look at costs at all.

How many, for example, base their rates on changing their van every 3 years?

I suspect many "lose" the costs of starting up as well.

Outbound jobs are no more guaranteed than a return job. However, if as much effort and thought is put into achieving return journeys - as is put into getting the outbound job, then they can come up reasonably often. This is what exchanges like this are designed for.

I do think having a vehicle that opens up more return journey opportunities should be a serious consideration. For example, if you run a Peugeot 206 van, then all you will be available for on the return run is effectively car loads. Run a midi van, and then you have the capacity to bid for up to 2 pallets. I know which vehicle I would rather be in, when parked up in Birmingham, looking for a job back to where ever I have come from.

Also, in some ways return jobs are easier to bid for, because you can be more competitive. You should be able to nail almost any job you see advertised, if it suits your journey back.

Anyone who relies on a backload is living in cloud cookoo land!

Forget all the hype, One should factor in ALL costs, and that includes driving back empty!

Getting paid for bringing something back is a nice bonus, BUT in my opinion should not be done cheaply!

Those that do cheap are the cause of poor rates in the first place. Goods DO need delivering and if only drivers had a sensible business head on them, customers would have to pay realistic rates to get the job done.

I agree with Alan, and if making a living means having to sit in a carpark until a return load comes up, then all that tells me is my outbound rate isn't paying me enough, and it's time to get out

To outbid others by going low to guarantee the return is doing exactly what everyone moans about, and that is, reducing rates. Where will it end?

Are you going to take a low paid outbound so you can try and get an equally low paid return?

If the outbound doesn't pay enough, then that is why you're in a carpark desperately looking for something going back e What next, everyone buying an artic, leaving home in Jan and getting back in December?

Don't you mean curtsinsider with a pod on

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Anyone who relies on a backload is living in cloud cookoo land!

Forget all the hype, One should factor in ALL costs, and that includes driving back empty!

Getting paid for bringing something back is a nice bonus, BUT in my opinion should not be done cheaply!

Those that do cheap are the cause of poor rates in the first place. Goods DO need delivering and if only drivers had a sensible business head on them, customers would have to pay realistic rates to get the job done.

Hear Hear.

wm couriers said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Anyone who relies on a backload is living in cloud cookoo land!

Forget all the hype, One should factor in ALL costs, and that includes driving back empty!

Getting paid for bringing something back is a nice bonus, BUT in my opinion should not be done cheaply!

Those that do cheap are the cause of poor rates in the first place. Goods DO need delivering and if only drivers had a sensible business head on them, customers would have to pay realistic rates to get the job done.

Hear Hear.

Totally agree I have just completed two jobs which finished on the south coast and returned to Lancashire empty got offered one return load but turned it down because of the ridicules price on offer.

Hear Hear.

Totally agree I have just completed two jobs which finished on the south coast and returned to Lancashire empty got offered one return load but turned it down because of the ridicules price on offer.

So if you were offered £50 for a return job, which would cost you no extra fuel, would you turn it down because it pays less than a normal hotshot or would you take it and go home with £50 pure profit?

I think you'll find Andy that an awful lot of Couriers would turn it down

It sets a precedent, and you may well think anyone would be mad not to, but the ones saying no are thinking about the bigger picture.

There are those that make a living doing £20, £30, £50 jobs (mostly eBay) and make a route accordingly but that is NOT what the majority of us are here for.

We are SAMEDAY urgent, gotta be done now Couriers not the "I've got an armchair i've just bought from Aberdeen and I live in Plymouth is £20 ok?" Couriers

There is a place for that kind of work, and I hope that it isn't here

Courier Expert said:

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Hear Hear.

Totally agree I have just completed two jobs which finished on the south coast and returned to Lancashire empty got offered one return load but turned it down because of the ridicules price on offer.

So if you were offered £50 for a return job, which would cost you no extra fuel, would you turn it down because it pays less than a normal hotshot or would you take it and go home with £50 pure profit?

Job like that never happen there will also be dead mileage and cost implication with invoicing mailing and bookkeeping so yes I would turn it down.

I think it all depends on job & price etc and how far away from collection you are and if its going your way. If you do a full paying job somewhere and can get a return back to your area for 70% of your tariff price you would be mad not to take it.

Which is where exchange sites come in, and is what they are all about

BUT

That is not the same as someone offering £50 from the South Coast to Lancashire, that is not the kind of work that belongs here in my opinion. There are other sites for that.

I Concur Mr Speed, However he didn't say £50 that was somebody else. I am a firm believer in doing trade prices for other courier companies though.

I am simply saying, that if you are not going to spend any extra money on fuel or spend much in the way of extra time, why not bid less for the job to secure it? Surely whatever price you quote, it is going to be more or less close to 100% profit. Surely that has got to be better than stubbornly driving home empty?

If it was on my way, £50 is £50 and as long as you get the correct rate on your outbound journey, I see no sense in being stubborn,

It is highly unlikely (if we assume we're not talking about eBay jobs) that any vendor has offered a cheap price to his customer in the hope that someone will snap it up on an exchange site.

It is to maximise profit at the expense of the courier

If you're happy with the £50 example, what about next time when it's £30, or the time after that when its £20?

Thats exactly why rates are where they are, there comes a point where you have to say "no".

We are all used to talking about trade prices, but there is a point where it just isn't viable, "backload" or not.

At that point you need to make a stand, unfortunately there are those out there who are working as couriers who have absolutley no idea what their running costs are, where the next van is coming from when theirs has had it, or even what to charge in the 1st place.

And that my friends, is very worrying for the rest of us

I agree a line does have to be drawn, especially when extreme examples are used of £20. However, a return journey generally has little or no costs, the courier is going home anyway, with or without a return job . Therefore, whatever the price quoted, it's going to be close to 100% profit.

Yes but that line is moving, and not in the right direction.

We all know what exchange sites are about, for a courier to try and get a double up, or something back, and for us to cover any overspill and work not in our areas... BUT its one thing getting a low bid from someone wanting the return and another thing expecting a low bid for same.

I had one earlier and had £140 to play with, had quotes varying from £120 -£170 and all points inbetween then a quote of £100... He was empty, 3 miles from the pick up, going back empty. I accepted his quote, made sense for both him and me. Now i'm not about to say "thanks but have £140" that would just be silly BUT the point i'm making is that I didn't expect a low quote, I didn't demand a low bid, he didn't have to quote low.

You can argue perhaps, that in my example the Courier "took" a job from someone else quoting at a "proper" rate, and yes that's true, but it works both ways, its swings and roundabouts, and on another day that chap would not have been in the area. Thats just the way it is

Too many vendors ARE expecting low bids, are demanding low bids and it is them pushing prices down, and those taking them. It is them i have a gripe with.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Yes but that line is moving, and not in the right direction.

We all know what exchange sites are about, for a courier to try and get a double up, or something back, and for us to cover any overspill and work not in our areas... BUT its one thing getting a low bid from someone wanting the return and another thing expecting a low bid for same.

I had one earlier and had £140 to play with, had quotes varying from £120 -£170 and all points inbetween then a quote of £100... He was empty, 3 miles from the pick up, going back empty. I accepted his quote, made sense for both him and me. Now i'm not about to say "thanks but have £140" that would just be silly BUT the point i'm making is that I didn't expect a low quote, I didn't demand a low bid, he didn't have to quote low.

You can argue perhaps, that in my example the Courier "took" a job from someone else quoting at a "proper" rate, and yes that's true, but it works both ways, its swings and roundabouts, and on another day that chap would not have been in the area. Thats just the way it is

Too many vendors ARE expecting low bids, are demanding low bids and it is them pushing prices down, and those taking them. It is them i have a gripe with.

I do not dictate bids on exchanges, I simply look at what is offered based on a combination of ETA and price. The couriers are in full control of the price they offer, so not quite sure where your point is?

Courier Expert said:

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I am simply saying, that if you are not going to spend any extra money on fuel or spend much in the way of extra time, why not bid less for the job to secure it? Surely whatever price you quote, it is going to be more or less close to 100% profit. Surely that has got to be better than stubbornly driving home empty?

Because you are then part of the problem as to why prices are not where they should be.

I certainly will not do any backload at anything other than approaching a 'normal' job.

We keep saying it, PRICE THE JOB CORRECTLY in the first place, then if God is looking down on you favourably you just might get a full paying job in the homeward direction!

I would sooner drive back empty [as I have already priced things as if I would be anyway] than line your pocket or anyone else's with a £50 implausible offer to drive from the south coast to Lancashire!

So Rapid I understand that £50 is a joke but if some one offered you 50% of your standard price would you do it?

Andrew, yet again you hijack a thread that is being talked about generally, and make it personal. At no point has this thread mentioned you by name, or even intimated that it was about you or your business practise. You do seem to assume that every thread is somehow having a dig at you... It isn't cos it's not allowed.

There are plenty of threads elsewhere that require your input more than here as you well know

Deadline Despatch said:

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So Rapid I understand that £50 is a joke but if some one offered you 50% of your standard price would you do it?

Can't give a definite answer, it would depend on MANY factors. IF it was back from the same place more than likely yes, if it involved waiting or driving out of my way NO.

Big difference for the stated example of £50 from south coast to Lancs than 50% from South of France. Then it would depend still on many factors.

It is not a big deal as I keep saying, PRICE RIGHT INITIALLY!

My point Andrew is quite clear if you take off your " is he having a go at me? Glasses"

And that is, there are those that quote lower to ensure they get the load taking them home, and there are vendors that expect quotes to be low and stipulate "backload rates" to prove the point.

Are they offering their customer a cheap deal? I very much doubt it no, what they are about is making as much as possible from the Courier or not charging enough in the first place

And those that can't see it are the very same that allow the practise to continue, and it is both that push prices down to a level that is making this industry unworkable and at the same time setting a precedent that these low prices are the norm.

They aren't but they soon will be!

Anyway...where were we... Small van v large wasn't it?

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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My point Andrew is quite clear if you take off your " is he having a go at me? Glasses"

The glasses got shattered the last time you had a go at me!

Get a room guys. lol

I think you're confusing me with Ella Fitzgerald...

It also depends how far you have to go back to your own area as said from the south coast to lancs for £ 50 yes I'd knock it back not worth the hassle. However south coast to say somewhere along your way back. At the end of the day couriers have vehicles to run which cost money. A flashy website costs much less to run so yes a backload rate of £50 quid is just an insult

Does it matter whether you drop it off in Birmingham, Lancashire or any point in between? Surely it's one pick up, one drop off, with minimal extra mileage or time.

Don't get me wrong, I pay full rate to our couriers regardless of whether they are on a return from one of our jobs, or someone else's job, because that is the agreement. However, if I have a customer that is only willing to pay a certain price - and I have identified a vehicle returning in the same direction - then it makes sense to price the job to get the business, rather than letting it go.

Legrys Express Ltd said:

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It also depends how far you have to go back to your own area as said from the south coast to lancs for £ 50 yes I'd knock it back not worth the hassle. However south coast to say somewhere along your way back. At the end of the day couriers have vehicles to run which cost money. A flashy website costs much less to run so yes a backload rate of £50 quid is just an insult

So DON'T rely on them! DON'T do them at stupid prices!
There is no need to do them, If it is urgent, the customer has to pay a premium price for a premium service. So don't do it for peanuts!

Somehow some people have great difficulty knowing where they fit in, On the one hand they want to be a Courier offering a 1st class service at premium rates [which is what it should be] then do an about turn to be an ebay deliverer at 'Tat' prices.

We are happy to be URGENT couriers, offering a professional service, and leave the Tat to 'Man & Van' experts who are happy to earn some pocket money. Sometimes the definition of what 'courier service' is offered gets somewhat clouded, In my mind there are: 1. URGENT [premium service] No co loading, as fast as possible A to B 2. Same day, collected and delivered on the same day. 3. Next day 4. As & when, Cheap as chips, which is what E bay customers generally require.

Do it cheap and you are contributing to the crap rates that many seem to get away with offering.

I don't rely on silly rates and I do work for rates I'm happy with.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

There are those that make a living doing £20, £30, £50 jobs (mostly eBay) and make a route accordingly but that is NOT what the majority of us are here for.

We are SAMEDAY urgent, gotta be done now Couriers not the "I've got an armchair i've just bought from Aberdeen and I live in Plymouth is £20 ok?" Couriers

There is a place for that kind of work, and I hope that it isn't here

I focus mainly on sameday, but i do get requests to move eBay items as well, usually sofas, and in my experience it pays perfectly decently. Maybe not as glamorous as samedaying, but it comes with the added bonus that you can plan the journey ahead of time, and it usually pays cash. If you advertise locally, you get local requests. The majority of customers realise that long distance isn't cost-effective for them.

ZENITH Courier Services said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

There are those that make a living doing £20, £30, £50 jobs (mostly eBay) and make a route accordingly but that is NOT what the majority of us are here for.

We are SAMEDAY urgent, gotta be done now Couriers not the "I've got an armchair i've just bought from Aberdeen and I live in Plymouth is £20 ok?" Couriers

There is a place for that kind of work, and I hope that it isn't here

I focus mainly on sameday, but i do get requests to move eBay items as well, usually sofas, and in my experience it pays perfectly decently. Maybe not as glamorous as samedaying, but it comes with the added bonus that you can plan the journey ahead of time, and it usually pays cash. If you advertise locally, you get local requests. The majority of customers realise that long distance isn't cost-effective for them.

Agree totally there Zenith!

Refer Whatvan site for any type of question and answer for van related.. You confusion may solved there. Good luck..