Services

Hi all,

I coming up against city sprint more and more of late. Some of my clients have asked if I could offer a similar service such as sameday before 17.00 to help reduce their costs. I have explained that the service is different to a normal dedicated service and that their freight would be co loaded. The response I am getting is, if their deliveries are a not so urgent just need to be there that day they are looking at keeping there cost down. I understand everything is about price as well as service these days. I have a lot going into London daily so happy to do this going into London and collections coming out.

What I would like to know is how you all would feel about taking a backload at possibly not such a great rate? Whilst at the same time committing to it being delivered before 17.00? This would also depend on it being possible to be done of course.

Do any of you currently offer this service if so how do you find it?

Thanks

Mark

I think this is a very difficult service to offer without the economies of scale, total control of your own subbies and fixed cost base that city sprint have. They have the confidence to take any small van job on and know they will cover it for around 45p per mile and knowing they have the vans at their exclusive disposal.

If there is another way to compete with them, I haven't found it yet.

Its fine until one of their vans turns up 17.40hrs at the delivery point and every ones gone home

Or nobody bothered to find out that Friday is an early closing day.

The problem with the "anytime toady" v "asap today" is there is a point during the day that they become one and the same thing.

I have competed on this type of service in the past, but not to the detriment of the couriers pay.

The problem is what do you call a 12noon job to manchester from Stansted? Is that an asap or an anytime today service?

The other problem is, its all very well offering a two tier sameday, but to make it work you are asking your load to be co-loaded and as such, is yours actually going to get there by 1700?

A dangerous game to play with your hard earned customer, much better to offer them a back up plan for when CitySprint screw up

I see what you are all saying. I am thinking along the lines providing its physically possible plus room for error to do the job then i will take it. If I think it's not possible or I don't think I could co load it I won't take it on that service.

At the end of the day they are asking you for a service they can get from city sprint at a low price. What you have to ask yourself is WHY they are asking you to compete with this service

Answer is they are not happy with the service they are getting but want you to provide a better service but for the same or even lower price

Tell them to shove it... If they want a premium service then they Have to pay the price

PB Express said:

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At the end of the day they are asking you for a service they can get from city sprint at a low price. What you have to ask yourself is WHY they are asking you to compete with this service

Answer is they are not happy with the service they are getting but want you to provide a better service but for the same or even lower price

Tell them to shove it... If they want a premium service then they Have to pay the price

Very well well put Paul.

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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PB Express said:

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At the end of the day they are asking you for a service they can get from city sprint at a low price. What you have to ask yourself is WHY they are asking you to compete with this service

Answer is they are not happy with the service they are getting but want you to provide a better service but for the same or even lower price

Tell them to shove it... If they want a premium service then they Have to pay the price

Very well well put Paul.

Agreed and not only that, this kind of service will definately bring the price down for all of us..

I'm not sure telling your clients to shove it is going to endear you to them. Better to explain the difference between what you do and what Citysprint do, without being disparaging.

I think there is a growing number of customers that, due to the big boys, have become accustomed to getting lower rates than is reasonable, and have come to expect us all to offer the same when they mess up.

I agree it would be nice if we could explain the facts of life to them, but they don't really want to know any of that. All they want is a better service than they're currently getting, and ideally at the same price, or in other words a first class service at a 2nd class price. You're also right when you ask why they'd be interested in you to do the same as what they're getting now, and it's because it doesn't work.

You can maybe try and make it work, but ultimately it can't... Someone will get let down, the price will creep up whether it be with sneaky waiting time, increased mileage, or some other hidden charge.

So there really is no need to compete because at some point they will come back to you.

If you're insane enough to sub for these guys, then all you're doing is helping them keep accounts from all of us, us that pay proper rates and value both our customers, and the couriers that deliver for them.

I am looking at it more on the lines of this. If they have a non urgent delivery and it fits in with what I have, then I am best off taking it and putting more revenue on the vehicle. This will stop city sprint having the job and I have a little bit more revenue on the vehicle. If I can't cover it on that service I will offer a dedicated only option if not city sprint can have it. I get all the urgent red hot specials over city sprint and other couriers in my area as it is. I have a good working relationship with my clients, they are asking if I can provide this service. I know I can't to the extent of city sprint but if I can tie it in with what I have and earn more why not. This is not a service I wish to advertise but think its worth looking at.

Be carefull as you may be making a rod for your own back, as speed has mentioned 1st class service for 2nd class price.. They will expect more and more of what your offereing, and when you cant meet there demands, they will move onto someone else expecting the same service for the same if not lower price,.. Must mention if you try to sub to cover work is the subber going to accept the lower than standard rate for the job in question.

If our sameday price is too high for the customer, we simply put it out for bids to our couriers as an economy job. If any of them can fit it in with what they are doing, then they quote the customer themselves. These type of jobs have occasionally been quoted, booked and delivered within the same day but generally they tend to be 'any time this week' type of jobs.

Now there's a word if you want one to replace backload.."economy"... A nicer ring to it although why anyone panders to these people that want cheap is beyond me. There are plenty of overnighters out there so why do we insist on muddying the water by adding another service level that we just don't need

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Now there's a word if you want one to replace backload.."economy"... A nicer ring to it although why anyone panders to these people that want cheap is beyond me. There are plenty of overnighters out there so why do we insist on muddying the water by adding another service level that we just don't need

The way I see it is either:

A. We say no and waste the enquiry, after spending the best part of 5 minutes explaining that we are a direct vehicle service and not a cheap parcel carrier for unwrapped and fragile items.

or

B. We pass it on to our couriers to have a go themselves

Even if they quote the rate we would normally pay them for a sameday job, without our usual margin on top, the customer gets an economy/backload rate and the courier either gets paid the same or fits it in with something else and they quote a cheaper rate.

I call that win-win, customer happy, courier happy and for us, well we would have just turned the customer away otherwise. Oh, and we get to give it a nice name too: Economy Service :-)

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Now there's a word if you want one to replace backload.."economy"... A nicer ring to it although why anyone panders to these people that want cheap is beyond me. There are plenty of overnighters out there so why do we insist on muddying the water by adding another service level that we just don't need

The way I see it is either:

A. We say no and waste the enquiry, after spending the best part of 5 minutes explaining that we are a direct vehicle service and not a cheap parcel carrier for unwrapped and fragile items.

or

B. We pass it on to our couriers to have a go themselves

Even if they quote the rate we would normally pay them for a sameday job, without our usual margin on top, the customer gets an economy/backload rate and the courier either gets paid the same or fits it in with something else and they quote a cheaper rate.

I call that win-win, customer happy, courier happy and for us, well we would have just turned the customer away otherwise. Oh, and we get to give it a nice name too: Economy Service :-)

Maybe they could deliver a pizza on backload too!

:-)

Scott.

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Now there's a word if you want one to replace backload.."economy"... A nicer ring to it although why anyone panders to these people that want cheap is beyond me. There are plenty of overnighters out there so why do we insist on muddying the water by adding another service level that we just don't need

The way I see it is either:

A. We say no and waste the enquiry, after spending the best part of 5 minutes explaining that we are a direct vehicle service and not a cheap parcel carrier for unwrapped and fragile items.

or

B. We pass it on to our couriers to have a go themselves

Even if they quote the rate we would normally pay them for a sameday job, without our usual margin on top, the customer gets an economy/backload rate and the courier either gets paid the same or fits it in with something else and they quote a cheaper rate.

I call that win-win, customer happy, courier happy and for us, well we would have just turned the customer away otherwise. Oh, and we get to give it a nice name too: Economy Service :-)

You say customer happy, we are supposed to be providing a sameday/urgent delivery/collection service, i'm afraid if customers don't want to pay my prices I don't start messing about with alternatives for them by finding a cheaper servive for them, if you want anything in life you have to pay for it, if a customer won't pay your prices then let find a cheaper quote it's ok saying look after them he could be a customer in the future if they won't pay your prices now they never will, is that the type of people you want to deal with.

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Now there's a word if you want one to replace backload.."economy"... A nicer ring to it although why anyone panders to these people that want cheap is beyond me. There are plenty of overnighters out there so why do we insist on muddying the water by adding another service level that we just don't need

The way I see it is either:

A. We say no and waste the enquiry, after spending the best part of 5 minutes explaining that we are a direct vehicle service and not a cheap parcel carrier for unwrapped and fragile items.

or

B. We pass it on to our couriers to have a go themselves

Even if they quote the rate we would normally pay them for a sameday job, without our usual margin on top, the customer gets an economy/backload rate and the courier either gets paid the same or fits it in with something else and they quote a cheaper rate.

I call that win-win, customer happy, courier happy and for us, well we would have just turned the customer away otherwise. Oh, and we get to give it a nice name too: Economy Service :-)

You say customer happy, we are supposed to be providing a sameday/urgent delivery/collection service, i'm afraid if customers don't want to pay my prices I don't start messing about with alternatives for them by finding a cheaper servive for them, if you want anything in life you have to pay for it, if a customer won't pay your prices then let find a cheaper quote it's ok saying look after them he could be a customer in the future if they won't pay your prices now they never will, is that the type of people you want to deal with.

We are just responding to what customers are asking for, not everyone wants or needs a 'premium' sameday service, as Citysprint have discovered. I don't mind offering an alternative, as long as it is no more hassle than turning them away and provides extra work for the couriers in my network. No one has to do the work, it's just there to quote on if anyone wants to do it or finds it convenient to do that day.

I'm with you Gary, what you're doing is setting a precedent.

You may as well let them all join Courier Exchange or mtvan and access to trade prices thereby making all of us redundant, you included.

It isn't right and should rightfully be condemned

Its hard enough to survive without offering lower rates, companies have prices they can't start lowering them its there livelihood, if people get wind of cheap/cheaper sameday delivery costs then we are all doomed, lets all be professional and sensible about this.

Here's an example, and one i'm sure we've all had... Customer rings, asks for a quote, says they'll ring back... You know they're ringing around elsewhere but as you're competitive you still may get the job. Customer rings back and books you as you either quoted lower, were quicker with your quote, or you're closer, or they just like the sound of your sexy voice, either way all good.

Add into the mix someone offering trade rates and the above phonecall starts the same, but despite the sexy voice they don't ring back.

If you don't offer trade rates, they will have to choose one of us and rightly so.

Do you stand outside Sainsburys trying to sell the carrots from your allotment?

Or stand outside Ikea with your handmade quilt covers?

Or how about turning up outside Kwikfit with your toolkit offering to service the cars before they go in?

Having to deal with the likes of Citysprint is one thing, idiots quite another

Like! Sorry not Facebook I know.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Here's an example, and one i'm sure we've all had... Customer rings, asks for a quote, says they'll ring back... You know they're ringing around elsewhere but as you're competitive you still may get the job. Customer rings back and books you as you either quoted lower, were quicker with your quote, or you're closer, or they just like the sound of your sexy voice, either way all good.

Add into the mix someone offering trade rates and the above phonecall starts the same, but despite the sexy voice they don't ring back.

If you don't offer trade rates, they will have to choose one of us and rightly so.

Do you stand outside Sainsburys trying to sell the carrots from your allotment?

Or stand outside Ikea with your handmade quilt covers?

Or how about turning up outside Kwikfit with your toolkit offering to service the cars before they go in?

Having to deal with the likes of Citysprint is one thing, idiots quite another

Like!

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Here's an example, and one i'm sure we've all had... Customer rings, asks for a quote, says they'll ring back... You know they're ringing around elsewhere but as you're competitive you still may get the job. Customer rings back and books you as you either quoted lower, were quicker with your quote, or you're closer, or they just like the sound of your sexy voice, either way all good.

That is sometimes the case, but in the vast majority, it isn't.

I'm sure BA turned away passengers in their droves, with the attitude - if you can't afford to fly, then don't. Then easyjet/ryanair came along, now we are all jetting off to europe multiple times a year, for less than the cost of a train fare!

Lets all be ba, who wants to be an easyjet, once your prices go cheaper people get to know and will use you which normally means a poorer service, its harder work increasing than reducing prices, its madness, it won't effect me my prices are my prices.

Well said Gary!

We are all aware that we have the ogre of citysprint standing over us, or to a lesser extent Rico Logistics, and i'm sure there are accounts we've either lost, or been asked to share with them.

Sometimes that customer comes back because they have come to realise what we all offer is more than being cheaper than everyone else... That we can deal with

BUT

Allowing someone access to trade rates, is giving customers the opportunity to have the same service they are getting now only cheaper

BA offer their customers much more than the likes of ryanair or easyjet... As do all of us against the likes of citysprint and rico...

What you are doing is giving them access to trade rates, not an inferior service, and that is dangerous.

I don't consider using Easyjet accessing a 'trade rate' to fly and I'm sure neither does anyone else.

My point was, Easyjet and Ryanair have created new customers and a new market that never existed before. Lets face it, we can't all be BA, the market isn't big enough. Neither was the flight market, Michael O'Leary and Easyjet etc created something new, they got people flying, whereas before many would not have considered it as a viable option.

Perhaps the same principle could apply to sameday - new customers that previously would have used Citylink pre 9am overnight service, might consider a viable sameday alternative. i think we have to accept Citysprint have done their homework on this.

I'm flying from Stansted to Malaga next month for £40 each way, ok i'll probably have to pay for overpriced sandwiches and coffee on way, but that would have been unheard of years ago. A customer can't courier even an envelope from Peterborough to London for that price!

Would you not class flying as multidrop?

I didn't call easyjet or ryanair a trade rate. Its you that are making the comparison. You are offering BA seats at trade rates...

Easyjet and ryanair are citysprint and rico... If you want to use your analogy

You are opening up trade rates to all and sundry and that is not right

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

You are opening up trade rates to all and sundry and that is not right

A lower price is not a trade rate, it's simply a different price for a different level of service.

A trade rate, is when you expect exactly the same thing - collection within the hour and a dedicated vehicle - for less money.

I am not offering that and as far as i know, neither are citysprint.

Sometimes i really am unsure as to whteher you read what i say... I haven't said citysprint offer trade rates. I have compared citysprint and rico to your ryainair and easyjet... Ie a 2nd rate service

You have quite clearly said you offer an alternative price by allowing them access to your network of drivers at their rates. To me that is a trade rate and that is, like it or not, offering them access to the same level of service you offer, but without you getting your cut.

And that is quite a dangerous thing to do

Isn't that rather like giving one of my customers my mtvan username and password?

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Isn't that rather like giving one of my customers my mtvan username and password?

Errr no, as I pay them for the job myself!

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

I have compared citysprint and rico to your ryainair and easyjet... Ie a 2nd rate service

That's all down to perception...

A Ryanair flight to Glasgow, is a premium service when compared to the train or coach.

UPS (and their customers) think an urgent 'premium' service is next day delivery. So i don't think a co-load sameday service is second rate at all. It's just a different tier. Many customers would consider any service that keeps their goods in the personal care of a courier (for any amount of time) a premium service, compared to your average overnight carrier.

As i say, all about perception and where you started from in the first place.

I'm with rob on this, if you offer a customer the same level of service. At a lower rate the they are just going to want the same all the time. All your doing is digging a hole for yourself and everybody else.

PB Express said:

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I'm with rob on this, if you offer a customer the same level of service. At a lower rate the they are just going to want the same all the time. All your doing is digging a hole for yourself and everybody else.

I don't think anyone is offering the same level of service for less money.

Courier Expert said:

A lower price is not a trade rate, it's simply a different price for a different level of service.

A trade rate, is when you expect exactly the same thing - collection within the hour and a dedicated vehicle - for less money.

I am not offering that and as far as i know, neither are citysprint.

I quote myself

Often this cheaper service is not explained to customers well enough so they are comparing two things worlds apart, one customer commented on twitter once that his tracked same day consignment was "going in the wrong direction"

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Now there's a word if you want one to replace backload.."economy"... A nicer ring to it although why anyone panders to these people that want cheap is beyond me. There are plenty of overnighters out there so why do we insist on muddying the water by adding another service level that we just don't need

The way I see it is either:

A. We say no and waste the enquiry, after spending the best part of 5 minutes explaining that we are a direct vehicle service and not a cheap parcel carrier for unwrapped and fragile items.

or

B. We pass it on to our couriers to have a go themselves

Even if they quote the rate we would normally pay them for a sameday job, without our usual margin on top, the customer gets an economy/backload rate and the courier either gets paid the same or fits it in with something else and they quote a cheaper rate.

I call that win-win, customer happy, courier happy and for us, well we would have just turned the customer away otherwise. Oh, and we get to give it a nice name too: Economy Service :-)

Another of your quotes

Quote them without your margin on top

Ie: trade rate

Ie: digging a hole

How many times have you heard companies slagging off o/d's for quoting cheap rates to end users

PB Express said:

Quote them without your margin on top

Ie: trade rate

Ie: digging a hole

How many times have you heard companies slagging off o/d's for quoting cheap rates to end users

I have no problem with O/D's vying for their own business and certainly wouldn't slag them off for it.

What we offer is the ability for the courier to bid their own price to the customer, we put a small margin on that bid for handling the credit card transaction, admin and paying the couriers invoice.

The above scenario works, if the customer has time to wait for quotes. If not, then they just book our immediate service or go somewhere else.

I'm not talking about them vying for their own customers, i would encourage any o/d to do that

BUT NOT AT TRADE RATES

PB Express said:

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I'm not talking about them vying for their own customers, i would encourage any o/d to do that

BUT NOT AT TRADE RATES

Oh i see, I agree on that point. But there is a difference between 'trade rates' and offering a lower price for a different service, such as co-load or nextday/two day.

I'm not sure whether you deliberately miss the point, or just don't get it... And you have contradicted yourself, and not fot the 1st time... Call it whatever you want but you are blatantly giving the end user access to trade rates.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I'm not sure whether you deliberately miss the point, or just don't get it... And you have contradicted yourself, and not fot the 1st time... Call it whatever you want but you are blatantly giving the end user access to trade rates.

I don't agree, offering a customer a slower delivery speed or a shared vehicle load, or a non urgent delivery any time before 5pm, is not offering trade rates.

Let's use an example:

Parcelforce 24 hour cost lets say £15 Parcelforce 48 hour costs £10

So because 48 hour costs less, are you saying it's a trade rate?

You know very well what i'm saying, so stop trying to be clever and hide it behind a ryanair v ba argument, or UPS, parcelforce or whoever else you want to add to try and fudge it.

You yourself said

"Even if they quote the rate we would normally pay them for a sameday job, without our usual margin on top, the customer gets an economy/backload rate and the courier either gets paid the same or fits it in with something else and they quote a cheaper rate"

That, my friend, is what i call a trade rate, you can try and justify it all you like.

You may as well give them your mtvan id and password, and turn the light off on your way out.

You call that a win-win?

I call that reckless

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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You know very well what i'm saying, so stop trying to be clever and hide it behind a ryanair v ba argument, or UPS, parcelforce or whoever else you want to add to try and fudge it.

You yourself said

"Even if they quote the rate we would normally pay them for a sameday job, without our usual margin on top, the customer gets an economy/backload rate and the courier either gets paid the same or fits it in with something else and they quote a cheaper rate"

That, my friend, is what i call a trade rate, you can try and justify it all you like.

You may as well give them your mtvan id and password, and turn the light off on your way out.

You call that a win-win?

I call that reckless

Hmm, I just call it offering more than one delivery option to the customer :-)

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

You may as well give them your mtvan id and password, and turn the light off on your way out.

In case you had not noticed (or deliberately missed it out) our economy jobs do not get posted on mtvan, so I cannot see where our id & password comes into it.

Please explain?......

I think anyone can see he's not talking literally

Lol... Unbelievable, truly unbeleivable (sigh)

I rest my case

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Lol... Unbelievable, truly unbeleivable (sigh)

I rest my case

My point was, what has it got to do with the type of work we put on mtvan, bearing in mind we only put our normal sameday jobs on here?

Or did you just not have an answer?

MK Bikes said:

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I think anyone can see he's not talking literally

I am also aware he's not talking literally!

I am simply asking why he has brought mtvan or even any exchange into the equation at all? As I am not offering customers prices based on quotes from any exchange, I cannot see the relevance.

You are encouraging a bidding down process where the end users are involved, you could end up with all your work going that way, when getting involved with two completely different services a users poor service with one could tarnish the other, one large courier company has gone this way and there are many moans about them on social networking sites (as you recall you once pointed out to me they were probably related to the cheaper service ) good luck

MK Bikes said:

when getting involved with two completely different services a users poor service with one could tarnish the other

it's the same couriers with the same vans, just a different delivery speed. i don't think one service will tarnish the other in any way.

The services are different. A dedicated sameday delivery at my rate is not something I turn down unless physically impossible.

Sameday by 17.00 is a different service charged less and i will only take the booking if it suits me.

Services are different I understand all points of views. The idea of putting this out there is to see all points of views.

City sprint are making good revenue on there vehicles (shame the Od doesn't see much of it) so they are doing something right.

I am looking at the bigger picture, I choose to take the work if it suits, my customer is happy I am doing the work, it's another job CS Don't have and my vehicles earn more revenue. There is also no pressure that I have to take the job on this service. I will still be getting the red hot urgent specials...

I didn't design this service but I am trying to adapt to the needs of the client.

Ok let me put it another way.

Customer a calls up at 09.00 and ask for a vehicle to pick up from them today and deliver to w1 before 17.00 today. 1 pallet.

You respond give me 30 minutes and I will see what I can come up with. They are happy to wait for a decision.

Customer b calls up at 09.15 I have a urgent special that's needs picking up from me at 11.00 and needs to be in sw1 ASAP. Also 1 pallet

You respond no problem would you mind if I co loaded it with another job? I will knock some money and will deliver yours 1st so there is no hold ups? Can do it £75.00 instead of £90.00 on this occasion!

Customer responds no problem as long as my job is there on time and I save some money that's fine with me.

In the mean time I call customer a saying that's yep can cover your job cost will be £45.00. They are happy with the price and confirm booking.

I pick up Customer a non urgent booking 1st as I have time. I then go to customer b for his urgent collection. He can see I have the other goods on board so knows I don't have to stop. I deliver customers b pallet 1st and then go and deliver customer a pallet.

I am £30.00 better off for the sake of a few miles and 30 mins in time.

I also have a empty van in London looking for a backload.

I know this doesn't happen everyday but the point I am getting at is iit fits why would you turn it down?

So what service is a London to manchester if i book it at 12noon? Dedicated sameday or delivery by 1700?

Just another way to confuse the customer, or does the "deliver by 1700" service have a cut off point dependant on where its going from and to?

See? All these different rates, sameday urgent, sameday by 1700, backload, economy.

Why complicate it?

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

All these different rates, sameday urgent, sameday by 1700, backload, economy.

Why complicate it?

It can get complicated trying to organise co-loads and more importantly, organising it so it actually works. Which is why i leave it to my couriers to bid and manage economy jobs themselves, I don't need to do the thinking for them, they can work out if the job will fit around other stuff and quote accordingly.

This is based on from where I am based ( Basingstoke and Heathrow). Places further a field will obviously be different. You being in stanstead could accommodate this if you wanted to. I am not selling this economy service I have been asked could I cover shipments on this basis. If it suits then I don't see where the problem is. If I was out there actively selling this service it is a different storey.

If you given the same scenario above in the same circumstances would you turn it down?

Excuse the grammar and spelling mistakes... It is nearly midnight and I am tired. :)

I have been in the same scenario, which is why i asked the question as i was asked to do a "budget" job to manchester at 12noon. Clearly there is a time where the two service levels overlap and a "budget" cannot be asked for, but that doesn't stop it being asked for.

Having to offer 2 service levels because of the oppostion is one thing, to introduce it when you don't have to is quite another.

My dig is not at you ADR, you have no doubt felt that you had no choice but to offer the same as CS, or lose out altogether. I did the same for one of my customers, and it payed off. I hope it does for you too.

P. S I no longer have 2 levels, i won the contract outright at one level, urgent sameday!

If I have a courier going up north part loaded or returning from scotland going back down south empty, it would of course have an influence on the quotes we do that day. If there is a chance of converting a quote, knowing we have an empty van coming back, then we will haggle accordingly. If it fits, and makes the couriers journey more worthwhile, then why not.

ADR transport said:

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Excuse the grammar and spelling mistakes... It is nearly midnight and I am tired. :)

I was too tired to notice!

Well done speed, I hope I can get CS out the door and just have one service eventually. :)

Courier expert, I can't believe I done it. Wait until the morning and read it. :)

Night all.

I suspect your customer will come to the same conclusion, service level is more important than price.

We can all quote silly, but if it doesn't get there when you want it to get there then it's pointless.

If they don't see the value of what you offer over your oppostion then they're not worth having as a customer

I think there is a genuine customer requirement for a delivery speed somewhere in between our economy service and our 'go straight there' sameday service. This type of customer will generally need it delivering before 'close of business' or if it is already the afternoon at the time of booking, they sometimes want it dropped off first thing tomorrow morning.

At the moment, I have no way of competing with city sprint on this, they have clearly done their homework and identified this segment before anyone else did and are no doubt reaping the rewards, while everyone else either stubbornly refuses to recognise their customer needs or is simply unable to take advantage of the flexibility this service offers to the courier.

The way I see it, there are only 2 ways to compete with them. Which is to create a network as big as they have, with couriers who are prepared to work at the rates they offer or alternatively, we all work together using an exchange like this one, with some common agreement on trade pricing for these type of jobs.

Ahhh so you'd like a common agreement on trade price but you are happy to muck about with sameday rates as you see fit?

MK Bikes said:

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Ahhh so you'd like a common agreement on trade price but you are happy to muck about with sameday rates as you see fit?

What do you mean?

Its quite easy to compete with citysprint, the only difference is they pay drivers a paltry rate, whereas you don't need to.

It just means a very much reduced margin for you, but has no need to affect driverpay at all.

Obviously as its an "anytime today" service, you have the ability to put it with other work, be it a "proper" sameday, or another "budget", and thereby still keeping your margins, and the more volume you have, the easier it is to introduce it.

For me though, a sameday job means urgent, so although I can offer this service, I don't... It only helps to confuse.

As i put earlier, a 12noon London to Manchester can only be an urgent sameday, but that won't stop people asking for a budget class service.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Its quite easy to compete with citysprint, the only difference is they pay drivers a paltry rate, whereas you don't need to.

It just means a very much reduced margin for you, but has no need to affect driverpay at all.

Obviously as its an "anytime today" service, you have the ability to put it with other work, be it a "proper" sameday, or another "budget", and thereby still keeping your margins, and the more volume you have, the easier it is to introduce it.

For me though, a sameday job means urgent, so although I can offer this service, I don't... It only helps to confuse.

As i put earlier, a 12noon London to Manchester can only be an urgent sameday, but that won't stop people asking for a budget class service.

Well explained Rob!

It isn't rocket science.

Pity really that on MTvan 'budget' and 'anytime sameday' is mixed up with proper courier work! instead of an ebay tat type site like Ship*** :)

Yes i think most of us would prefer to see this site attract purlely the premium service level, thereby avoiding any confusion.

There will be a time when a courier thinks he's doing a "budget" or "economy" when he should infact be doing a premium, and that could lose that vendor an account, or at the very least leave a very red faced controller and courier.

Citysprint will do whatever they can to take work from whoever they can, but anyone wanting an urgent samedy courier knows where to go, and it isn't with them.

I and many like me, realise there is still a market for urgent sameday work with no need to offer discounts or frilly bits... All they want is their consignment delivered now... And thats what i'm here for... Are you?

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Its quite easy to compete with citysprint, the only difference is they pay drivers a paltry rate, whereas you don't need to.

I do not agree this is the only difference. yes they pay less, but they pay the same rate regardless of single load, co-load or return.

They are offering this service to customers based on being able to co-load and do more than one drop on the route, all before 5pm.

As for reduced margins, trying to co-ordinate co-loads actually involves more work and calculations than a single load, so I do not think what you are saying would work in practice. If it were 'easy to compete with citysprint' as you say, why is no one able to effectively do it?

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Yes i think most of us would prefer to see this site attract purlely the premium service level, thereby avoiding any confusion.

There will be a time when a courier thinks he's doing a "budget" or "economy" when he should infact be doing a premium, and that could lose that vendor an account, or at the very least leave a very red faced controller and courier.

Citysprint will do whatever they can to take work from whoever they can, but anyone wanting an urgent samedy courier knows where to go, and it isn't with them.

I and many like me, realise there is still a market for urgent sameday work with no need to offer discounts or frilly bits... All they want is their consignment delivered now... And thats what i'm here for... Are you?

I certainly am!

Well Andrew i did it, so it can be done, i don't now because i don't need to, back then i shared an account, now it is my account. Good sense prevailed over price on that occasion.

It takes more work for the controller yes, but if he knows what he's doing there is no reason why it can't be done.

What prevents it being done by many is lack of volume

I know it can be done and on the odd occasion, we have. But it's one thing doing it now and again, compared to making a success of it, like Citysprint have.

Tying up every possible enquiry into a potential co-load with another enquiry or actual job is time consuming. Citysprint probably get around it by just taking the job anyway and just doing it, knowing that more times than not they are going to be profitable, due to the nature of their network.

Anyway the point is, lower margins alone are not the answer.....

The objective behind mtvan and other exchanges, is not to have an 'empty van' and to quote rates that reflect spare capacity either going to your destination half loaded - or returning empty. If this concept was utilised more, then we would all be a step closer to competing with citysprint.

And getting your gtm covered cheaper

Courier Expert said:

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.Citysprint probably get around it by just taking the job anyway and just doing it, knowing that more times than not they are going to be profitable, due to the nature of their network.

Citysprint probably get around it by taking the job and then paying their subbie to go and do it at 44p a mile and don't care if he's making a living or not.

PB Express said:

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And getting your gtm covered cheaper

That's true, but don't forget we often pay over the odds too, so it's swings and roundabouts.

MyVanCan said:

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Courier Expert said:

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.Citysprint probably get around it by just taking the job anyway and just doing it, knowing that more times than not they are going to be profitable, due to the nature of their network.

Citysprint probably get around it by taking the job and then paying their subbie to go and do it at 44p a mile and don't care if he's making a living or not.

You beat me to it

Thing that baffles me is if it can be dropped off the next morning why not put it on the overnighters.

Its the cheapest option.

Because it might be something that doesn't need to be used as a football. Also some things are too important to take the chance of a mis-delivery etc.

MyVanCan said:

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Courier Expert said:

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.Citysprint probably get around it by just taking the job anyway and just doing it, knowing that more times than not they are going to be profitable, due to the nature of their network.

Citysprint probably get around it by taking the job and then paying their subbie to go and do it at 44p a mile and don't care if he's making a living or not.

Not being funny, but why should they care?

The 'bad' party in my view is the numptie who takes on a job at that price anyway!

PB Express said:

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Thing that baffles me is if it can be dropped off the next morning why not put it on the overnighters.

Its the cheapest option.

We get lots of drop the next morning jobs, they want a dedicated vehicle or at the very least, they want their goods in the personal care of one courier.

And for that we have a premium service... Its called a sameday courier, whether thats picking up at 9am for asap, or 1700 for a pre9am it amounts to the same thing... And anyone offering to do it cheaper than a premium service price is the one that helps reduce rates.

Far from being clever by offering an alternative to a standard overnight, what you are offering is something we already had, only now its being offered for less, i don't call that clever.

We do plenty of pick ups that are for the next day, but its still at the same rate, as its the same mileage.

Quantity or quality?

I know where i'd rather be

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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And for that we have a premium service... Its called a sameday courier, whether thats picking up at 9am for asap, or 1700 for a pre9am it amounts to the same thing... And anyone offering to do it cheaper than a premium service price is the one that helps reduce rates.

Far from being clever by offering an alternative to a standard overnight, what you are offering is something we already had, only now its being offered for less, i don't call that clever.

We do plenty of pick ups that are for the next day, but its still at the same rate, as its the same mileage.

Quantity or quality?

I know where i'd rather be

Says it all!

TBH I just can't understand how anyone can see it differently.

I keep saying it, but it is the person foolish enough to run around at unsustainable rates that is the problem with the poor PPM offered.

Driving for little return ? ? the only one to blame is yourself!

I'm afraid we all have our views, and despiete what anyone says on here, or elsewhere, we have little to no chance of changing what our industry has become. Some people just can't see what is being said, or just don't want to... I'm really not sure which

I have my biz, which is still growing at a steady pace, and all we offer is one service level... A premium service level, a level that is sustainable for me and any courier that wants to work for me.

I believe in being fair, and i don't ever ask anyone to do something that i wouldn't be prepared to do myself.

How about we start a "Courier Charter" lol

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I'm afraid we all have our views, and despiete what anyone says on here, or elsewhere, we have little to no chance of changing what our industry has become. Some people just can't see what is being said, or just don't want to... I'm really not sure which

I have my biz, which is still growing at a steady pace, and all we offer is one service level... A premium service level, a level that is sustainable for me and any courier that wants to work for me.

I believe in being fair, and i don't ever ask anyone to do something that i wouldn't be prepared to do myself.

You can't say fairer than that!

Unless you can't pronounce your T's F's and C's

Lol

All very topical for me as today I learn one major customer is talking to Rico, apparently they are offering sameday consignments at 80pplm. I calmly explained to them that I know exactly how Rico work, I used to work for them (usually the last job in a co load) and their jobs will be sitting round the corner waiting for a co load, i also know their work and it won't last long, if they are reallly lucky their job will be last one on first one off.

Surprising.. I didn't think rico were that bothered in sameday work nowadays. I thought it was more like installs etc

MK Bikes said:

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All very topical for me as today I learn one major customer is talking to Rico, apparently they are offering sameday consignments at 80pplm.

They offered me lower rates than that, however what they didn't mention is that the mileage is charged from the depot, so it's not as good as it looks. I also did not find them very efficient to deal with.

I have learnt that 80pplm strangly rises after they get in the door

I've had experience of a similar outfit. Their salesman get the account with the promise of 85pplm, but the invoice will have waiting time, charging from the nearest depot as Andrew says, and out of hours surcharge which you may or not also have yourself. The consignment is often late and no one answers the phone after 1800!

Its all a bit short term really and if you bide your time i would say 99 times out of 100 your customer will be back.

Its a shame anyone has to go thru this rigmarole to discover the service they already had was the one they wanted but the flip side of that is that it endorses how bleeding good we all are at what we do... And we price it accordingly without the need to add hidden extras.

Unfortunately too often its accountants rather than those on the shop floor that make these decisions... Hopefully your customer will see the light before they sign up, if they don't then i would offer to be their back up for when it goes tits up

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Unfortunately too often its accountants rather than those on the shop floor that make these decisions... Hopefully your customer will see the light before they sign up, if they don't then i would offer to be their back up for when it goes tits up

I absolutely agree.