City link

Shocking timing

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30602326

I just saw that, they could've been more tactful.

Lets hope the assets are stripped off the management to pay the workers for once

A E Delivery said:

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Lets hope the assets are stripped off the management to pay the workers for once

City Link are all self employed and agency staff. They won't get squat. I wonder how many other of the big guns are close to folding.

Nightrider said:

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A E Delivery said:

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Lets hope the assets are stripped off the management to pay the workers for once

City Link are all self employed and agency staff. They won't get squat. I wonder how many other of the big guns are close to folding.

I know, im going to be directly effected by this given i worked there this xmas season.

Yodel are, on the grapevine, having issues also although this is speculation...

Thats just the way the 'little people' get treated. I bet they started with a business plan which is worth diddly.

A E Delivery said:

Yodel are, on the grapevine, having issues also although this is speculation...

Yodel stopped making collections on the 11th for a few days, and still have a backlog of Christmas deliveries. Apparently they have been voted worst multi droppers in the UK. It must have been a close race with Hermes. From the Daily Outrage (Mail).

THE COURIERS ON 50P A PARCEL WHO EVEN BUY THEIR OWN FUEL

Couriers for Yodel are paid as little as 50p per delivery and must deliver up to 160 parcels a day, it is claimed.

Yodel, voted the worst parcel service in the UK, delivers for firms from Amazon and Waterstones to Boots and Argos.

But complaints have stacked up in the wake of Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

There are claims of items left in bushes, in bins or with unknown neighbours, and of deliveries at night.

Now stories have emerged of drivers paid just a few pence per parcel. On an online forum where staff rate employers, a man in Nottingham said he was offered the equivalent of 50p a parcel. He said: ‘How they expect you to earn even a half decent wage is beyond me.’

He worked out that by delivering one parcel every six to eight minutes, he would earn £2.50 an hour after deducting petrol, which seasonal couriers must buy. Job ads for seasonal drivers say they work ‘at some pace’, warning: ‘It’s no mean feat.’

A Scottish driver, who spent seven years at Yodel until 2012, said: ‘December is always the worst time. Some workers were out until 10pm. The workers had a target . . . it ranged from 110-160 parcels a day. You couldn’t bring back more than 2 per cent. Guys were coming back with 20 to 30 parcels saying they couldn’t do it. A lot of the workers were off with stress.’

Customers were just as unhappy. Twitter user ‘Yodelhell’ said: ‘All we want is our packages delivered intact. Is it too much to ask?’ Rachel Webber said her order showed she missed a delivery at 1am. She said: ‘I am going to assume I was asleep.’

Yodel said deliveries should be no later than 9pm. A spokesman said many workers had a regular salary but some were self-employed and paid per delivery. .

Its bad news about city link living in nuneaton nr coventry our agency has done work for a transport company the did alot of work trunking for city link im sure this will affect them massively maybe even put them under too.

We have been offered a xdp franchise ive read the reviews and they are poor but they have offered it us free for the first six months any one have any dealings with these?

I don't mince my words it's the best policy, but if anybody is daft enough to work for these big companies for naff all then I have have no sympathy for them, if somebody doesn't pay enough or you can't handle the workload then get the he'll out of there it's no good moaning, it's your life sort it out.

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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I don't mince my words it's the best policy, but if anybody is daft enough to work for these big companies for naff all then I have have no sympathy for them.

No sympathy for the self employed drivers who aren't going to be paid? And proud of it too, aren't you!

They weren't working for naff all, but now they are getting naff all for work they've done.

My mate works for Parcelforce and was claiming he was on £170 a day, sounds great but he was knocking out 100+ drops a day, minus diesel, wear and tear and his wage, that works out at fuck all pence per mile. I know guys have to make a living but until people stand up to the big names and say you're taking the piss, they will! Hopefully the Yodel and Citylink fiasco will open a few eyes but i worry that it will flood the market with 'man and van' types and those that try to be professional will suffer

People saying bad timing but im not sure about that when is it a good time to shut a courier company down Never is the answer to that However look at it this way Christmas rush was over and a lot of companies are on Christmas break personally I think shutting the doors on Christmas day made a lot of senses most stuff in the depos is probably last minute deliveries from Christmas eve As for comment about how much these muti drop guys earn or don't earn, my friend did it for a long time never heard him complain about the money once, however he did complain about the hours and lack of days off But then it depends who you work for, some of these companies like hermes paying 50ppp will fail in the long term because they wont keep drivers I get a call every other month asking if I want to join them

What stinks is if they don't pay their staff and subbies for December. I have had 3 times the normal number of parcels on my round for the last three weeks. The job is almost impossible, my eyes have only just stopped bleeding. To go through that hell and not get paid, I think I would take hostages.

Dennis said:

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AJM sameday Couriers said:

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I don't mince my words it's the best policy, but if anybody is daft enough to work for these big companies for naff all then I have have no sympathy for them.

No sympathy for the self employed drivers who aren't going to be paid? And proud of it too, aren't you!

They weren't working for naff all, but now they are getting naff all for work they've done.

Don't be a pen is will you I meant people going on about 50 pence a drop you big Goon.

ACB Couriers said:

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People saying bad timing but im not sure about that when is it a good time to shut a courier company down Never is the answer to that However look at it this way Christmas rush was over and a lot of companies are on Christmas break personally I think shutting the doors on Christmas day made a lot of senses most stuff in the depos is probably last minute deliveries from Christmas eve

It's disgusting timing. They've just had their busiest month of the year and will invoice and get paid for all of it, and at the same time avoid having to pay their sub contractors who delivered on their behalf.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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ACB Couriers said:

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People saying bad timing but im not sure about that when is it a good time to shut a courier company down Never is the answer to that However look at it this way Christmas rush was over and a lot of companies are on Christmas break personally I think shutting the doors on Christmas day made a lot of senses most stuff in the depos is probably last minute deliveries from Christmas eve

It's disgusting timing. They've just had their busiest month of the year and will invoice and get paid for all of it, and at the same time avoid having to pay their sub contractors who delivered on their behalf.

Citylink is owned by an investment bank. 'Nuff said. These people really don't give a chit.

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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Dennis said:

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AJM sameday Couriers said:

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I don't mince my words it's the best policy, but if anybody is daft enough to work for these big companies for naff all then I have have no sympathy for them.

No sympathy for the self employed drivers who aren't going to be paid? And proud of it too, aren't you!

They weren't working for naff all, but now they are getting naff all for work they've done.

Don't be a pen is will you I meant people going on about 50 pence a drop you big Goon.

It's you who is the Pennis! This thread is about CL going bust and not paying their drivers. But you Goon about low rates just to show what a clever thing you are.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

It's disgusting timing. They've just had their busiest month of the year and will invoice and get paid for all of it, and at the same time avoid having to pay their sub contractors who delivered on their behalf.

• a lot.

ACB Couriers said:

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People saying bad timing but im not sure about that when is it a good time to shut a courier company down Never is the answer to that However look at it this way Christmas rush was over and a lot of companies are on Christmas break personally I think shutting the doors on Christmas day made a lot of senses most stuff in the depos is probably last minute deliveries from Christmas eve As for comment about how much these muti drop guys earn or don't earn, my friend did it for a long time never heard him complain about the money once, however he did complain about the hours and lack of days off But then it depends who you work for, some of these companies like hermes paying 50ppp will fail in the long term because they wont keep drivers I get a call every other month asking if I want to join them

NO

They had the place brimming with subbys and then close operations before paying them off knowing this would be the way to maximize income to pay off the administrators and venture capitalists and knowing full well the books would look better off the back of not paying for this work . If they had shown a modicum of humanity they would have wrapped up before the xmas rush and not impacted on the massive amount of people who will be beyond pained by this . Companys are today laying people off and going out of business off the back of this . Im down 4 grand myself.

And how will it pan out? Admin will cash in the assets and divide this money after the main creditors have had there cut leaving a tiny amount for the people who will suffer. That 40 mill is secure as no doubt will cluses for interest and admin will of course happily pay themselves. Its the little people once again who will not be able to pay the visa bill in january.

I doubt very much they own any property to use as assets, our local depot is just a generic industrial unit. As said before it'll be the timing to show profit to sell to the highest bidder.

Dennis said:

I

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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I don't mince my words it's the best policy, but if anybody is daft enough to work for these big companies for naff all then I have have no sympathy for them.

No sympathy for the self employed drivers who aren't going to be paid? And proud of it too, aren't you!

They weren't working for naff all, but now they are getting naff all for work they've done

I know they weren't working for naff all you big time I wasn't implying that that and get that huge chip off your shoulder.

Inbetween the toy chucking that's goin on there is something here that should be a warning to us all. This isn't the 1st time nor will it be the last that big budineess takes advantage ofvthe little man. The fact that what citylink have done isn't illegal tells you all you need to know about the law makers. What has happened here is so blatantly obvious it shows the contempt those at the top had for anyone that was working for them and especially those sub contractors that helped them through the busiest time of the year. They never had any intention of paying anyone. They were merely maximising their turnover at the expense of ther employees and subcontractors who now face the prospect of getting very little if anything at all. And to announce it on xmas day?

Quite right, Speed. Shamefully, some people think the drivers have got what they deserved.

I don't mince my words it's the best policy, but if anybody is daft enough to work for these big companies for naff all then I have have no sympathy for them.

Dennis said:

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Quite right, Speed. Shamefully, some people think the drivers have got what they deserved.

I don't mince my words it's the best policy, but if anybody is daft enough to work for these big companies for naff all then I have have no sympathy for

I haven't time for your garbage I have to go onto shed5

I can't quite believe what I've just read. The RMT want the govt to nationalise citylink? Nationalise what exactly? Any customers they had would have found another carrier by now. Unlike most businesses you have no stock, and very few assets. Any assets they did have I expect have been "moved" elsewhere before any announcement was made.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I can't quite believe what I've just read. The RMT want the govt to nationalise citylink? Nationalise what exactly? Any customers they had would have found another carrier by now. Unlike most businesses you have no stock, and very few assets. Any assets they did have I expect have been "moved" elsewhere before any announcement was made.

I also read this, i think its the cash injection to keep afloat idea (that almost never works) as in it costs more to pay out in dole than cover the losses of a company keeping it going until it can be found a buyer .

Given the pot of 40 mill will want paying back firstly i cant see any company jumping at this unless they want to increase market share or expand using citylink infrastructure . It is possible to buy it for market share but it would not resolve the outstanding monies owed given theres a 40 mill hole to be filled before real people would see a penny and the citylink sites ive come across are most likely rented except for the Cov depot which i think is owned outright . No company would want this place as a hub as its in an awful place plus is very rundown .

Its a fine idea but in practice its flogging a dead horse .

I wish id found out the day before as id have a bucket of brand new scanners .

If they'd have kept it as Franchise's this would never of happened. Head office took it back in house to sell as a going concern and now it's back-fired the working man suffers. These Asset companies have a licence to strip Business's and the Government stand back and watch. I've always been in a union over the years and sadly it's like having a toothless dog, Great for health and legal advice but sadly no bite.

Pace Carriers said:

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If they'd have kept it as Franchise's this would never of happened. Head office took it back in house to sell as a going concern and now it's back-fired the working man suffers. These Asset companies have a licence to strip Business's and the Government stand back and watch. I've always been in a union over the years and sadly it's like having a toothless dog, Great for health and legal advice but sadly no bite.

Ive had a fair few involvements with asset strippers as i used to run them around the country and used to get a first hand incite into there activity's . Its very basic stuff . They will assess the assets of a business then offer a loan on a buy out basis to be recovered after a certain time . The business is wound up when they default but given its the same people running these businesses who allowed them to become subject to the interests of a venture capitalist in the first instance its a clear expectation of failure with additional default clauses built in for a return of investment . This is clearly whats going on here . A pot of cash is placed with a default time frame of the 2nd of jan 2015 . However this would incur loss of revenue due to paying out to subcontractors so they wound up early and thus ripped people off . This may be considered criminal in that they knowingly had a service to be paid out and defaulted but then who can you sue for a return of funds ? not the directors thats for sure and that piece of shyte david j smith will still have a happy xmas knowing that the administrators will not held him personally accountable and his salary will be secure .

The idea that the government should nationalise it is laughable. It no more deserves to be rescued than Woolies or Comet or Phones4u. It was dead wood that needed to be let go, unfortunate as it is for the staff and drivers.

One of our vans worked at CL Cardiff from November 10th for a 3 and half week period, my driver hated it there coming from DPD and ended up moving him back to DPD... He said it was total chaos in there, bollocked if bringing back any failed deliverys, still using paperwork, no optimisation etc etc...We then had to chase CL for monies owed and got paid 3k Dec 23rd!!!!! still lost 450 though on his last few days but could have been so much worse

Iron Link Transport Services Ltd said:

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One of our vans worked at CL Cardiff from November 10th for a 3 and half week period, my driver hated it there coming from DPD and ended up moving him back to DPD... He said it was total chaos in there, bollocked if bringing back any failed deliverys, still using paperwork, no optimisation etc etc...We then had to chase CL for monies owed and got paid 3k Dec 23rd!!!!! still lost 450 though on his last few days but could have been so much worse

If you got paid on the 23rd that suggests no one knew it was going to happen bar the owners

I did £500 of work for CL in November and got paid on Christmas Eve, so I think you're right Mr Pace, although I think it could be down to individual controllers who look after their drivers ie. Making sure the drivers get paid before the company goes into liquidation.

Jon Moulton, Tory donor and boss of Better Capital, which owns City Link, says he is "very sorry" about everyone losing their jobs, but blames their ruined Christmas on the nasty union folk leaking the information. He was going to be a super sort of chap and wait until Boxing Day to deliver the good news.

He'll get £20,000,000 back, but won't pay redundancies, which will be picked up by us taxpayers. We should not feel bad about this however, because they have paid an awful lot of tax since buying the company last year don't you know.

There, everyone feels much better now don't they? It must be lovely playing poker with other peoples money.

Mr Moulton, founder of investment business Better Capital, told Radio 4's Today programme: "We chased every possible way to save this company."

He said that delaying the closure of City Link over Christmas had not been an option, as trading while insolvent was a criminal offence.

And yet the company had been insolvent for the last 3 years so no doubt he will throw himself to the mercy of the judicial system based on this statement ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30621884

Oh and the irony hits home even more, the its a criminal offence to continue trading when insolvent just wasnt ironic enough then how about the we have paid out loads in tax in paye ( so what , its called employing people , do they really resent handing over every penny ? ) but the idea they pay out substantial amounts in tax would never be flawed now would it? Have there address ,

Better Capital PCC Limited

Heritage Hall, PO Box 225, Le Marchant Street, St Peter Port, Guernsey, GY1 4HY

Telephone: +44 (0)1481 716 000 Email: info@bettercapital.gg Website: bettercapital.gg

are their vans going cheap or are they leased

PW Courier Services said:

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are their vans going cheap or are they leased

Would you honestly want one? Have you seen the state of them and that colour!

PW Courier Services said:

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are their vans going cheap or are they leased

I would expect them to rock through an auction at some point as yes they will be owned.

However battered just doesnt cover it , the state of the fleet is something else .

Most employed drivers were given new contracts as self employed drivers so will be very much at the back of the queue when it comes to getting any kind of recompense. Diddly squat comes to mind

And most vans were leased by the newly self employed drivers.

A E Delivery said:

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its a criminal offence to continue trading when insolvent

Funny, that's the exact wording I put in one of the back and forth emails I've had with him...

The BBC article describes Better Capital who bought CItyLink for £1 in 2013 as "restructuring specialists". For specialists they don't seem to have done a very good job turning the company around. Next time I need something restructured I won't rush to call them.

Van OD said:

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The BBC article describes Better Capital who bought CItyLink for £1 in 2013 as "restructuring specialists". For specialists they don't seem to have done a very good job turning the company around. Next time I need something restructured I won't rush to call them.

You've got the idea wrong. Restructuring Specialists buy failing businesses for £1, then sell off all the assets for more than £1. If they run the business for a while, they take out all the income, then sell off all the assets and then declare themselves bust. But it's the business that's bust, not the restructuring specialists.

If a self employed City Link driver was paid £2 per parcel, and did 100 drops a day, for four weeks, then he would be owed £4,000. If there were 1,000 self employed drivers then these shysters have got out of paying a cool £4,000,000 in very hard earned wages. Then the redundancy pay for the staff might be around £1,500 each, and there were 2,300 of them, so that's another £3,500,000. So we are already up to £7,500,000 before we add on any other sort of bills, and other unpaid contractors like the trunkers, and agency staff. These guys must be owing £10,000,000 just for Christmas.

Interesting article in the FT about the state of the multi drop industry

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/392e7cd2-90e6-11e4-914a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3NgDuVlg0

Interesting article about the merry go round at Better Capital that makes sure they never lose.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2890435/Millions-taken-City-Link-run-collapse-going-concern.html

I am quite surprised at how many customers this week have been talking about City Link, asking if we will be busier because of their collapse, and incredibly, alot of sympathy that we do so much for peanuts. If there is any positive in this it has opened peoples eyes that the internet shopping revolution has not been the boom for the industry, but more of a bust.

It's why i'd never even contemplate working for a parcel company, it'll go the way of the Post Office, consumers pushing prices down and wanting deliveries for f**k all. A delivery guy from Yodel turned up the other day and i wouldn't transport pigs in his motor. Until the Industry sorts itself out and comes to a sensible solution the price cutting wars will continue. Good luck to you boys still doing it

Certainly shitty timing. My brother-in-law works(ed) at the Coventry depot and received the news via text at 4pm on Xmas day! Nice bunch these private equity non-taxpaying scum such as John Moulton, owner of Better Capital and resident in Guernsey.

Personally the larger blame lies for me with the likes of John Lewis (one of CLs biggest customers), who nurture good PR with their co-operative structure and bonuses yet 'rendition' out the unpopular parts of their business, where the race to the bottom is in full flow. Unfortunately, this country is full of hypocritical consumers who buy from the likes of John Lewis and yet still want their goods delivering for next to nothing.

With rates generally still no higher now than 10 years ago (whether with Citysprint or elsewhere), I await with interest what happens when Universal Credit comes in more widely with it's very harsh treatment of low-profit self-employment. The government ain't going to subsidise the industry any more.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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ACB Couriers said:

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People saying bad timing but im not sure about that when is it a good time to shut a courier company down Never is the answer to that However look at it this way Christmas rush was over and a lot of companies are on Christmas break personally I think shutting the doors on Christmas day made a lot of senses most stuff in the depos is probably last minute deliveries from Christmas eve

It's disgusting timing. They've just had their busiest month of the year and will invoice and get paid for all of it, and at the same time avoid having to pay their sub contractors who delivered on their behalf.

I wasn't looking at this from the drivers side more the customers, however you are right it sucks for the drivers, I think we get blinded by the Media saying about the poor customers when in fact its the Drivers that are hit hard

I even had them put my name down for a position im glade they never called me!

The simple fact is that all the big boys are not actually "same day guaranteed" delivery companies.

If the end customer is not prepared to pay for the cost of a dedicated driver and his van plus the courier company's cut on top, then they can't expect a guaranteed same day service!

Any self employed driver that has allowed themselves to be convinced into accepting lower rates on the promise of backloadsbackloads etc is deluded and will always end up out of pocket.

Be wise subbies! Work out what your vehicle, road tax, insurance, maintenance etc will cost you per mile and charge accordingly. Any company that is truly offering a dedicated sameday derive to their customers will have no problem in paying that price.