Hire and reward

When I joined Courier Exchange a few weeks ago they asked me to show that I had hire and reward, would it be a good idea to show on here?

I think it would, because there is a lot of couriers on the road without the correct insurance- h&r, git and public liability

ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

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When I joined Courier Exchange a few weeks ago they asked me to show that I had hire and reward, would it be a good idea to show on here?

The problem is that it would be expensive to administer properly, who is going to pay for it, higher fees?

Courier Expert said:

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The problem is that it would be expensive to administer properly, who is going to pay for it, higher fees?

Exactly why the thread 'What a muppet' was looked at with people expecting the content to be something else!

Not another can of worms!

But yes, it wouldn't do any harm to the industry if people raised their standards. H&R in my opinion is actually probably more important than the GiT, as it means the vehicle/driver is appropriately insured for their activities. Whereas the GiT only really protects the Goods in Transit (hence the name)

east-lancs sameday couriers limited said:

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I think it would, because there is a lot of couriers on the road without the correct insurance- h&r, git and public liability

How do you know, how many have you met, did you ask to see their documentation, your just assuming

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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east-lancs sameday couriers limited said:

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I think it would, because there is a lot of couriers on the road without the correct insurance- h&r, git and public liability

How do you know, how many have you met, did you ask to see their documentation, your just assuming

You hear about it all the time, newspapers word of mouth etc etc

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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east-lancs sameday couriers limited said:

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I think it would, because there is a lot of couriers on the road without the correct insurance- h&r, git and public liability

How do you know, how many have you met, did you ask to see their documentation, your just assuming

Someone in manchester got pulled over by vosa, checked his documents and seen that he didnt have the right documentaion. Siezed his van and the goods that was in it

east-lancs sameday couriers limited said:

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AJM sameday Couriers said:

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east-lancs sameday couriers limited said:

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I think it would, because there is a lot of couriers on the road without the correct insurance- h&r, git and public liability

How do you know, how many have you met, did you ask to see their documentation, your just assuming

Someone in manchester got pulled over by vosa, checked his documents and seen that he didnt have the right documentaion. Siezed his van and the goods that was in it

Ok, that's 1 example, what about some more?

The reason I ask the question Andrew, It must be better for you and others who place work on the site to know the people you have covering the work are covered by H and R GIT and PL, It would give you peace of mind,

It would be a good idea to at least require the respective documents to be uploaded.

We have several topics on a similar vein and its all about trying to improve the standards of our industry. We all know there are supposed couriers driving around in cars, pretending to be couriers. They don't have courier insurance, or GIT and that enables them to undercut those of us that do things properly.

Anything that gets these charlatans out of the industry can only be a good thing, and it is obvious that anyone who has a problem with that, has something to hide.

If it costs more for things to be done properly then for me thats a small price to pay to legitimise our industry

1 example is too many, Igot pulledin london by road check targetting courier bikes, chatting to the copper and I asked if they'd caught any? He pointed to what I thought was a bike bay but turned out to be about a dozen bikes waiting to be lifted to the pound, so yes it does happen. I can't see any reason why you would object to having your documents checked on a trade exchange, Oh yeah there is one

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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We have several topics on a similar vein and its all about trying to improve the standards of our industry. We all know there are supposed couriers driving around in cars, pretending to be couriers. They don't have courier insurance, or GIT and that enables them to undercut those of us that do things properly.

Anything that gets these charlatans out of the industry can only be a good thing, and it is obvious that anyone who has a problem with that, has something to hide.

If it costs more for things to be done properly then for me thats a small price to pay to legitimise our industry

I couldn't put it better myself.

ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

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The reason I ask the question Andrew, It must be better for you and others who place work on the site to know the people you have covering the work are covered by H and R GIT and PL, It would give you peace of mind,

For this to be apt you'd have to have morals as well as the desire to earn money! I sleep easy knowing I am insured appropriately.

This attitude of "It's not my responsibility because I put a disclaimer on my website" is sad and possibly delusional. There may not be anything set in stone to say that you must check these things, but this does not exonerate you from liability should something happen.

But this topic crops up every 2-3 weeks, I give it a couple of hours before it's turned into a full blown slanging match, where the topic of insurance has been forgot about, you may notice I don't get involved much with topics nowadays and I'm glad I don't what starts out has a fairly decent topic soon goes sour and goes on into the earlier hours of the morning, why don't we all try and help one another instead of abusing and slagging off people, if you don't like somebody then ignore them.

Lets try and keep this on thread and not get overly personal because its important and we should be able to discuss without naming names and getting the topic closed. A lot of us have issues with certian individuals but its up to us all to ensure our voice is louder

These topics matter and too often I, and others, get sucked in to the playground tactics of others. Its a clever attempt to getting those that are passionate in what they believe in, to be edited off a subject or that subject to be closed.

This industry needs regulating

Courier Expert said:

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ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

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When I joined Courier Exchange a few weeks ago they asked me to show that I had hire and reward, would it be a good idea to show on here?

The problem is that it would be expensive to administer properly, who is going to pay for it, higher fees?

I am not disagreeing with you, i am simply asking if people are prepared to pay for it. It's a time consuming task, if it is going to be done properly.

Courier Expert said:

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I am not disagreeing with you, i am simply asking if people are prepared to pay for it. It's a time consuming task, if it is going to be done properly.

I don't quite understand how it is a time consuming task, could you explain?

ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

When I joined Courier Exchange a few weeks ago they asked me to show that I had hire and reward, would it be a good idea to show on here?

I and my team check insurance documents for our Level 2 couriers every week and I have come accross examples of policies that should never have been approved by Courier Exchange in the first place. Things like:

1. Exclusions that prevent you carrying anything much of value, electronic goods, alcohol and many other things.
2. Restrictions that prevent you from carrying anything that is not boxed and sealed
3. Conditions that say if you are aware of what you are carrying, your not covered.

When we call the courier to explain, their answer is that courier exchange has approved it, so why have we got a problem?

I suppose my point is that, just because it has been supposedly checked by someone else, does not make the policy suitable for your customers.

Scott Garner said:

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Courier Expert said:

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I am not disagreeing with you, i am simply asking if people are prepared to pay for it. It's a time consuming task, if it is going to be done properly.

I don't quite understand how it is a time consuming task, could you explain?

I have to pay someones wage to do this task!

Also, there are many long drawn out disputes over it, because if you tell someone their policy is not acceptable, they are obviously not going to be happy about having to buy another one!

It is very time consuming explaining this and also, many many people do not send in exactly the documents you require, we get a lot of 'quotes' 'missing exclusions' and just letters from a broker, instead of the actual schedules or policy documents. So a lot of time is spent chasing people.

ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

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When I joined Courier Exchange a few weeks ago they asked me to show that I had hire and reward, would it be a good idea to show on here?

I missed a previous point, all this means is that they checked the couriers has a policy, that's it. They are not checking very important exclusions on the GIT schedule, so what value is check?

Courier Expert said:

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ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

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When I joined Courier Exchange a few weeks ago they asked me to show that I had hire and reward, would it be a good idea to show on here?

I missed a previous point, all this means is that they checked the couriers has a policy, that's it. They are not checking very important exclusions on the GIT schedule, so what value is check?

Not being a expert on GIT insurance, IF my policy says that I am covered for all risks of 25k are you telling me that I am not covered for certain things, to me all risk means all risk!

ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

Not being a expert on GIT insurance, IF my policy says that I am covered for all risks of 25k are you telling me that I am not covered for certain things, to me all risk means all risk!

It probably does, but just check the exclusions/small print to be sure. We do, and we find lots of them! Unfortunately this is something brokers sometimes fail to mention when selling a policy.

A system that checks that a policy exists, even if it doesn't check all the exclusions, is surely better than no system at all? For the simple reason that it will discourage those without insurance from bidding on jobs. I didn't start bidding on work here until I had proper GIT and PL in place.

MyVanCan said:

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A system that checks that a policy exists, even if it doesn't check all the exclusions, is surely better than no system at all? For the simple reason that it will discourage those without insurance from bidding on jobs. I didn't start bidding on work here until I had proper GIT and PL in place.

Doesn't mtvan already cater for this? I believe it says on your profile whether you have valid GIT or not. I think you enter your policy number to remove the red warning label.

Courier Expert said:

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MyVanCan said:

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A system that checks that a policy exists, even if it doesn't check all the exclusions, is surely better than no system at all? For the simple reason that it will discourage those without insurance from bidding on jobs. I didn't start bidding on work here until I had proper GIT and PL in place.

Doesn't mtvan already cater for this? I believe it says on your profile whether you have valid GIT or not. I think you enter your policy number to remove the red warning label.

This thread is about H&R, not GiT

They do for GIT but not for H&R and PL, could be something that could be looked into and stop others from bidding who are no properly insured for the job that needs to done.

east-lancs sameday couriers limited said:

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They do for GIT but not for H&R and PL, could be something that could be looked into and stop others from bidding who are no properly insured for the job that needs to done.

Just wanted to reassure people that we are moving this way to cover all insurances and provide more details to other site members.

H&r is not hard to check at all the wordin says either hire and reward or courier surely

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Garner said:

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Courier Expert said:

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I am not disagreeing with you, i am simply asking if people are prepared to pay for it. It's a time consuming task, if it is going to be done properly.

I don't quite understand how it is a time consuming task, could you explain?

I have to pay someones wage to do this task!

Also, there are many long drawn out disputes over it, because if you tell someone their policy is not acceptable, they are obviously not going to be happy about having to buy another one!

It is very time consuming explaining this and also, many many people do not send in exactly the documents you require, we get a lot of 'quotes' 'missing exclusions' and just letters from a broker, instead of the actual schedules or policy documents. So a lot of time is spent chasing people.

Why would you be chasing people? Surely the OD should be doing all the work to prove to you that they are appropriately covered under the criteria set by you. The longest time consumption for you should really be the set up/initiation of your vetting policy.

You tell the OD what you require them to be covered for. They then send you their cover note and list/highlight for you where to look in the schedule for your minimum requirements and exclusions. If the documents you receive are unacceptable you send a pre-composed email/letter stating that the policy does not meet the minimum requirements, leave the ball in the OD's court. If they can't do the legwork following your simple instructions are they capable of representing your business?

Meet the written requirements = Allowed to join your network, enjoy the workflow Don't meet the written requirements = Come back when you do, or find your own customers

Why over complicate it?

Courier Expert said:

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MyVanCan said:

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A system that checks that a policy exists, even if it doesn't check all the exclusions, is surely better than no system at all? For the simple reason that it will discourage those without insurance from bidding on jobs. I didn't start bidding on work here until I had proper GIT and PL in place.

Doesn't mtvan already cater for this? I believe it says on your profile whether you have valid GIT or not.

Exactly, so what's so hard about adding the ability to upload H&R policy docs too?

Scott Garner said:

Why would you be chasing people? Surely the OD should be doing all the work to prove to you that they are appropriately covered under the criteria set by you. The longest time consumption for you should really be the set up/initiation of your vetting policy.

You tell the OD what you require them to be covered for. They then send you their cover note and list/highlight for you where to look in the schedule for your minimum requirements and exclusions. If the documents you receive are unacceptable you send a pre-composed email/letter stating that the policy does not meet the minimum requirements, leave the ball in the OD's court. If they can't do the legwork following your simple instructions are they capable of representing your business?

Meet the written requirements = Allowed to join your network, enjoy the workflow Don't meet the written requirements = Come back when you do, or find your own customers

Why over complicate it?

All very well in theory, but in practice (as with many things in life) it is not so simple in practice. This is something we do every day, we're good at it, and unfortunately the closer you inspect policies, the more problems and issues you get.

mtvan have a lot of members, so if you suggesting they check and approve all these policies prior to joining, then I am fairly sure it is going to be a costly exercise.

Courier Expert said:

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All very well in theory, but in practice (as with many things in life) it is not so simple in practice. This is something we do every day, we're good at it, and unfortunately the closer you inspect policies, the more problems and issues you get.

mtvan have a lot of members, so if you suggesting they check and approve all these policies prior to joining, then i am fairly sure it is going to be a costly exercise.

But you're the expert, surely if you're making a profit from handling calls and passing on work then you budgeted for this to protect yourself against liabilities?

Would you give ADR work to someone not appropriately qualified to do it?

mtvan are charging for membership then surely this covers the cost? If not then they either need to charge more for membership or charge a vetting fee.

Scott Garner said:

mtvan are charging for membership then surely this covers the cost? If not then they either need to charge more for membership or charge a vetting fee.

I am not against the idea, my original point was to ask if anyone is willing to pay extra for this? I suspect those who sub out work might be (myself included), not so sure about those who are joining to quote for work?

The cost increase should not be that much per member surely

I think some Courier Companies don't give a rats bottom burp as to what insurance they have or GIT cover they have, or what vehicle they drive, as long as they can get to the pick up and at the right price.

They'll never admit it, obviously, but they know it no matter how many pink ribboned nice smelly words they use

My opinion for what it's worth - an exchange such as mtvan, or an expert forwarder or whatever who carries out courier work using subbies, has a DUTY OF CARE to his customers to ensure that the people he is using are properly insured.

You should be expert at spotting stuff that's unacceptable and anybody you employ for that purpose should be also, be you an exchange or a forwarder. The cost of membership should already include that duty of care.

Enson Express said:

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My opinion for what it's worth - an exchange such as mtvan, or an expert forwarder or whatever who carries out courier work using subbies, has a DUTY OF CARE to his customers to ensure that the people he is using are properly insured.

You should be expert at spotting stuff that's unacceptable and anybody you employ for that purpose should be also, be you an exchange or a forwarder. The cost of membership should already include that duty of care.

I agree about duty of care, but as Rob said, many just couldn't care less.

If we need to cover a job that we can't cover in house, I try to cover it with my own trusted subbie list or via a recommendation.

Even then, some are so inept that even the basics of obtaining a legible signature is beyond them.

The ultimate responsibility is with the courier company to check the sub-contractor is insured, or to have have some kind of back up insurance - regardless of whether an exchange has done any kind of checks or not - unless those checks are going to underwritten and guaranteed by the exchange - which is probably never going to happen.

Interesting - I've just looked at the Live Tracking map and at a randomly chosen centre, Basildon, I see that of 22 members listed, 14 are annotated "INVALID GIT". It was a similar picture centring the cursor anywhere else! Would it be fair to say that two thirds of members haven't got insurance? Would it be wise for anyone offering work to check that map?

Enson Express said:

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Interesting - I've just looked at the Live Tracking map and at a randomly chosen centre, Basildon, I see that of 22 members listed, 14 are annotated "INVALID GIT". It was a similar picture centring the cursor anywhere else! Would it be fair to say that two thirds of members haven't got insurance? Would it be wise for anyone offering work to check that map?

I think it is more the case they haven't bothered to update their profiles, but yes, it is worrying!

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Even then, some are so inept that even the basics of obtaining a legible signature is beyond them.

I have had my fair share of this, i think some kind of induction pack or training video would be useful when joining an exchange,

Courier Expert said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Even then, some are so inept that even the basics of obtaining a legible signature is beyond them.

I have had my fair share of this, i think some kind of induction pack or training video would be useful when joining an exchange,

Would make little difference. Have had couriers that have been trading a long time who are totally inept

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Courier Expert said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Even then, some are so inept that even the basics of obtaining a legible signature is beyond them.

I have had my fair share of this, i think some kind of induction pack or training video would be useful when joining an exchange,

Would make little difference. Have had couriers that have been trading a long time who are totally inept

Perhaps a written multiple choice test? lol

Courier Expert said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Courier Expert said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Even then, some are so inept that even the basics of obtaining a legible signature is beyond them.

I have had my fair share of this, i think some kind of induction pack or training video would be useful when joining an exchange,

Would make little difference. Have had couriers that have been trading a long time who are totally inept

Perhaps a written multiple choice test? Lol

Might work as long as a legible name on the exam paper is not required.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I think some Courier Companies don't give a rats bottom burp as to what insurance they have or GIT cover they have, or what vehicle they drive, as long as they can get to the pick up and at the right price.

They'll never admit it, obviously, but they know it no matter how many pink ribboned nice smelly words they use

I think very few check documents when using a subbie, and i think many make assumptions that the exchange site has already done the relevant checks. Some exchange sites do, some don't, this one does not

Its all too easy to fill in the GIT bit with random numbers on here and hey presto, it looks like you have cover.

If members want a better standard of membership requirement its up to them to say so.

For me the least you can ask is that members submit their insurance and GIT documents as a pdf, which is attached to their profile, for anyone intersted to download as and when they want to.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

I think very few check documents when using a subbie, and i think many make assumptions that the exchange site has already done the relevant checks. Some exchange sites do, some don't, this one does not

I do not know of any exchange that actually checks the contents of a policy, such as the terms and exclusions. As far as I understand, they just check that the courier actually has one, which means very little if they are excluded from carrying anything other than boxed and sealed parcels etc

Courier Expert said:

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The ultimate responsibility is with the courier company to check the sub-contractor is insured, or to have have some kind of back up insurance - regardless of whether an exchange has done any kind of checks or not - unless those checks are going to underwritten and guaranteed by the exchange - which is probably never going to happen.

So every time you sell a gtm on mt van you check the couriers h&r and git before you give the job out

Pull the other one you just sell the job

This is why documents need uploading to the site more for your peace mind it should all be part of the criteria for joining a so called professional exchange

I'm not asking for the content to be checked, if you read what i put i suggested the need to upload in a pdf file the courier insurance and GIT documents for all to see. We all know GIT has so many exclusions it isn't worth the paper its written on, but that is not the point

The point is we need a standard and that means getting courier insurance and GIT

If a legit courier is paying out £2,500 to be insured correctly and someone else is using their private car in their normal policy, then that is clearly unacceptable and means the privateer can undercut the legit courier.

The problem is twofold, those that do it, and those that know they do it but still use them, or maybe 3fold, as there are those that actively promote it

Just use vans under 3 year old, you can almost guarentee the lease company has insisted on a H&R policy to be produced or is that just me reducing the competition haha.

As for GIT i have looked at mine and yes Rob its really not worth the paper its written on, i even have exclusions for airport luggage ( does that include flight cases? ) and also furniture, the list goes on. Then theres a £250 excess on top of their get out clause of " was the load properly secured". Has anyone ever actually made a claim, i havnt in 10 years

PB Express said:

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Courier Expert said:

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The ultimate responsibility is with the courier company to check the sub-contractor is insured, or to have have some kind of back up insurance - regardless of whether an exchange has done any kind of checks or not - unless those checks are going to underwritten and guaranteed by the exchange - which is probably never going to happen.

So every time you sell a gtm on mt van you check the couriers h&r and git before you give the job out

Pull the other one you just sell the job

This is why documents need uploading to the site more for your peace mind it should all be part of the criteria for joining a so called professional exchange

Am I missing something here? I didnt think CE had duty of care

full storey

MK Bikes said:

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You have a moral responsibility to the general public to ensure the driver whom you facilitate work for are correctly insured.

Courier expert said:

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I am not the insurance police, nor the MOT or Tax police.

In 15 years no, not once, but if the criteria for being a legit courier are to have both courier insurance and GIT then that's what people should have. Those that don't care are one of the reasons we have rates that many cannot compete with

And those that don't have both, and those that use drivers who don't have both should be outed, named and shamed, tarred and feathered or at the very least boycotted

Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:

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PB Express said:

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Courier Expert said:

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The ultimate responsibility is with the courier company to check the sub-contractor is insured, or to have have some kind of back up insurance - regardless of whether an exchange has done any kind of checks or not - unless those checks are going to underwritten and guaranteed by the exchange - which is probably never going to happen.

So every time you sell a gtm on mt van you check the couriers h&r and git before you give the job out

Pull the other one you just sell the job

This is why documents need uploading to the site more for your peace mind it should all be part of the criteria for joining a so called professional exchange

Am I missing something here? I didnt think CE had duty of care

full storey

MK Bikes said:

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You have a moral responsibility to the general public to ensure the driver whom you facilitate work for are correctly insured.

 

Courier expert said:

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I am not the insurance police, nor the MOT or Tax police.

I have a duty to my customer to ensure their goods are either covered by the sub-contractor, or me.

Personally i'm liking the tarred and feathered approach

I wonder how the customer would feel if they knew the courier carrying their goods wasn't properly insured

UK-Sameday Leicester Ltd. said:

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Just use vans under 3 year old, you can almost guarentee the lease company has insisted on a H&R policy to be produced or is that just me reducing the competition haha.

As for GIT i have looked at mine and yes Rob its really not worth the paper its written on, i even have exclusions for airport luggage ( does that include flight cases? ) and also furniture, the list goes on. Then theres a £250 excess on top of their get out clause of " was the load properly secured". Has anyone ever actually made a claim, i havnt in 10 years

Most are not worth the paper! Although there are some very good policies out there, they are few and far between.

east-lancs sameday couriers limited said:

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I wonder how the customer would feel if they knew the courier carrying their goods wasn't properly insured

Imagine not amused!

For one customer, We had to increase ours to cover one delivery that was above our standard policy cover!

The underwriters charged £105 just for the one journey. The customer agreed to pay it :)

Absolutely Mr East-Lancs and how many who sub work out on here do what they say they do and check the subbie has the relevant insurance cover.

There are those that are "selling" something that they don't have, notably couriers with relevant insurance, and are not doing the relevant checks because THEY DON'T GIVE A MONKEYS GOOLIES

If it would not be to much trouble Andrew could you send me a copy of you GIT, so I can compare with mine, to make sure I have correct cover, this would be of great help to me,

We rely on the sub-contractors GIT except for the first £500 and back up cover, which is completely different. However, I could send you a shining example of one of our members GIT insurance (with their permission), who took it off our recommended broker?

That would be great

It would be interesting to know just how many couriers ask about the value of the goods they are giving a quote to carry or even the ones that post a gtm knowing the value of their customers goods

UK-Sameday Leicester Ltd. said:

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It would be interesting to know just how many couriers ask about the value of the goods they are giving a quote to carry or even the ones that post a gtm knowing the value of their customers goods

In reality I am sure that a customer wishing to transport a VERY high value item[s] would in their own interest ask the question in the first place

So there we have it, a courier company who has no GIT because they have no Couriers... Who rely on their sub-contractors to have the relevant documentation and say, because saying otherwise would be extremely stupid, that they check every sub-contractor has the relevant documentation.

I suspect there are an awful lot who fall into the same category

Courier Insurance and Goods In Transit is merely a starting point for those of us that want to make our industry a more professional industry, and to stop the charlatans.

It really isn't open to debate

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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UK-Sameday Leicester Ltd. said:

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It would be interesting to know just how many couriers ask about the value of the goods they are giving a quote to carry or even the ones that post a gtm knowing the value of their customers goods

In reality I am sure that a customer wishing to transport a VERY high value item[s] would in their own interest ask the question in the first place

Do they? I do a fair bit for Pirelli, last month i only had 2 drops on, 1st was 20 tyres to an ats but the 2nd was 80 race tyres to silverstone and i wouldnt want to estimate the value of them

Is that the reason why some of us hardly get jobs... Since we take into consideration the cost of having all this necessary insurance for both parties peace, when we bid. There's the need to recognise those who take the pain to get this documents for business purposes. I think it's all about placing good value and reputation on you and other business parties. Time to be rewarded for having all those insurance... No need to complain about the prices we quote... It's fair!

I have just gone through my Git Policy with my broker, to make sure its is ok, for my peace of mind, I find I am not covered for household/ business removals, I can move new furniture /flat pack, but not old furniture, I am not a removal man anyway, so should not be a problem, to move furniture it would cost a extra £286 per year, after having all the small print explained, I am very happy with the cover, just to let anyone know out there, when moving furniture, watch out you may not be covered, so when moving eBay stuff, your cover may be void,

ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

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I have just gone through my Git Policy with my broker, to make sure its is ok, for my peace of mind, I find I am not covered for household/ business removals, I can move new furniture /flat pack, but not old furniture, I am not a removal man anyway, so should not be a problem, to move furniture it would cost a extra £286 per year, after having all the small print explained, I am very happy with the cover, just to let anyone know out there, when moving furniture, watch out you may not be covered, so when moving eBay stuff, your cover may be void,

Most policy excesses of £250 of more, would rule out many eBay items anyway.

So would you use them with excess, I do have a £250 on mine,

The fact you have GIT insurance is all a vendor wants to know, or most of em.

We all know the limitations of what they do and don't cover, and anyone worth their salt will have all relevant limitations in their terms and conditions anyway.

As we are all mostly sameday couriers, the chances of you ever claiming are remote, but that isn't really what this is about. What it IS about is having a basic level of some kind of standardisation, and at the moment the only way to do that is to show that we all have the relevant insurance in place.

Going forward I would like it to also include the need to be a member of some sort of trade organisation (see previous topic on Association of UK Couriers)

In the interim what else have we?

Would you let a tree surgeon loose on you if you needed an operation? So why are we allowing "drivers" to be "couriers".

There is a difference between the two, a shame some don't know it

ILKLEY EXPRESS said:

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So would you use them with excess, I do have a £250 on mine,

Many policies have excesses, so that is a fact we have to accept. Although I would expect the sub-contractor to pay that in the event of a claim, after all, they are the ones that chose the policy and may well have increased that excess to reduce the price of the policy.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

We all know the limitations of what they do and don't cover, and anyone worth their salt will have all relevant limitations in their terms and conditions anyway.

The limitations actually vary wildly, from only being able to carry items in a sealed box, to alcohol not being covered (we get regular beer barrel runs), electronic goods (how many bookings do you get for iphones and laptops left in hotel rooms?), we get quite a few. Some even limit the cover to so many £'s per kilo, which is utterly useless. Some GIT's exclude so many things, you might as well not bother being a courier at all.

So is GIT a necessary evil in many peoples opinions? as some don't think it's worth the paper it's written on

Some policies are a waste of money, but there are also some good policies too. It's a case of being careful what you buy.

Do you just want a piece of paper to waive around and say you have GIT?

Or do you want cover that you can actually claim on in most circumstances?

Andrew, you're missing the point... Again

I have never had to make a claim in 15 years, UK Sameday-Leicester 10 years, and I suspect most will say the same.

In the sameday market you're very unlikely to ever make a claim.

I think you deliberately miss what it is that's being said.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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The fact you have GIT insurance is all a vendor wants to know, or most of em.

We all know the limitations of what they do and don't cover, and anyone worth their salt will have all relevant limitations in their terms and conditions anyway.

As we are all mostly sameday couriers, the chances of you ever claiming are remote, but that isn't really what this is about. What it IS about is having a basic level of some kind of standardisation, and at the moment the only way to do that is to show that we all have the relevant insurance in place.

Going forward I would like it to also include the need to be a member of some sort of trade organisation (see previous topic on Association of UK Couriers)

In the interim what else have we?

Would you let a tree surgeon loose on you if you needed an operation? So why are we allowing "drivers" to be "couriers".

There is a difference between the two, a shame some don't know it

Hire and Reward Insurance is an absolute minimum but I would hazard a guess there are quite a few "couriers" who don't have this.

Andrew So when you going to show us the policy that you sell? I think from what your saying our policies are crap, thats why we need to get things standardized so we know where we are going, and what people need as to enable them to do the job correctly, having the correct policy is very important to me, you are very quick to post on here having a go at a guy who asked for payment, did he have any ins cover at all? You are quick to post people need to fill multiple choice question before able to join, why do put up so much resistance to people having Git Pl H and R, simple because you want them to be able to do it as cheep as possible, how many of the drivers who carry out work for you have correct ins? You need to get your own house in order before having a go at us who are trying to do the correct things!

This topic has gone way off topic and is now clearly personal rather than informative.

I think this topic, along with a few others, are basically aking for the same thing admin, and that is some form of standard, ideally an organisation that by being affiliated to guarantees that certain criteria have been met, like the kite mark discussed previously. Anyone not affiliated would then have no place in our industry.

I'm not expecting the likes of citysprint to be interested but i do think 99% of bonafide couriers would be

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I think this topic, along with a few others, are basically aking for the same thing admin, and that is some form of standard, ideally an organisation that by being affiliated to guarantees that certain criteria have been met, like the kite mark discussed previously. Anyone not affiliated would then have no place in our industry.

I'm not expecting the likes of citysprint to be interested but i do think 99% of bonafide couriers would be

Thanks for the comment, and all I'll say is we're looking at what we can do along these lines.

I have hinted b4 that you are well placed to be eactly that Richard, a bit of a tweek here and there and being an mtvan member could be the standard we're all looking for.

It isn't yet due to the differing levels of membership, but perhaps the PDF upload of insurance and GIT would be a starting point (not sure how easy that is to integrate but i'm not an IT bod) and wouldn't mean admin having to check everyone out. Perhaps we could have a gold, silver and bronze level of membership?

Just thinkin aloud

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It isn't yet due to the differing levels of membership, but perhaps the PDF upload of insurance and GIT would be a starting point (not sure how easy that is to integrate but i'm not an IT bod) and wouldn't mean admin having to check everyone out.

We already have PDF/Image upload on GIT. We added this with the intention to provide more details on profiles in time. And yes, I'd agree that that is a starting point and there's more that can be done.

BRONZE courier (open for vendors only, uploaded vat reg number and company reg number)

SILVER courier (uploaded git and courier insurance) unable to quote on work or get alerts

GOLD courier (uploaded git, courier insurance, license, vat reg number if applicable, logbook and pic)

PLATINUM Courier (as GOLD but evidence of trading for at least 5 years under the same name, with nothing but postive feedback from other members, something that has to be earned)

Please note in my example a courier company who sells only cannot exceed the Bronze standard and with the exception of a one off today, I include myself in this category

You could place the relevant standard onto your website and over time it WOULD mean something Each members profile would state which level they were at, and in the courier directory it would also show at which level each and every courier was at too.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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BRONZE courier (open for vendors only, uploaded vat reg number and company reg number)

SILVER courier (uploaded git and courier insurance) unable to quote on work or get alerts

GOLD courier (uploaded git, courier insurance, license, vat reg number if applicable, logbook and pic)

PLATINUM Courier (as GOLD but evidence of trading for at least 5 years under the same name, with nothing but postive feedback from other members, something that has to be earned)

Please note in my example a courier company who sells only cannot exceed the Bronze standard and with the exception of a one off today, I include myself in this category

You could place the relevant standard onto your website and over time it WOULD mean something Each members profile would state which level they were at, and in the courier directory it would also show at which level each and every courier was at too.

I might not have been on this site long, but i have to be honest, this could only be a good thing in the long run. In an ideal world, you would have to earn respect from doing a good job with the right attitude towards the industry.

You can either give me commission or a one off "finders fee" for the idea... lol

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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You can either give me commission or a one off "finders fee" for the idea... lol

Hahahahaha

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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You can either give me commission or a one off "finders fee" for the idea... Lol

We're already moving towards something similar hence reputation and git upload 6 or so months ago. ;-)

And if anyone logs on like me via a laptop or mobile just simply send copies to Rob ( as its his idea) and he will happily upload them foc lol

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Andrew, you're missing the point... Again

I have never had to make a claim in 15 years, UK Sameday-Leicester 10 years, and I suspect most will say the same.

In the sameday market you're very unlikely to ever make a claim.

I think you deliberately miss what it is that's being said.

I can barely believe what you are saying! Just because you have never made a claim, does not mean you should ignore the exclusions and just take any old GIT policy, just because it may never happen.

My house has never burnt down either, but I would want to be insured against it, even if it is not very likely to happen. How many of us have a spare £10k in our bank accounts to cover against stolen or damaged goods?

Andrew you're either being deliberately obtuse or you're just plain stupid

Read the bloody text

Sigh sigh sigh. Locked.