To box trailer on not to box trailer this is the question!

Hi chaps, Advice please, Got a customer who uses us for delivery of goods to shows etc and we have been having issues with picking goods up with a hire van as the storage place is not a 24 hour variety, so if we need to pick for Sunday delivery we have to collect on Saturday when the units are open but with the consequence of an extra days hire, We don't get enough SWB work to justify buying a van so I thought a 8'x5'x6' box trailer dragged by my van would fit the bill, anybody tried this?

If memory serves me right if your using the trailer for the purpose's of, there is a heap of licences and paperwork to deal with plus cost, I believe for H+R you need a Standard Goods Vehicle Operators Licence also an 01 Trailer certificate, the trailer would have to be braked, there is also some weight restriction issues with combined mass weight, and I think you may have to be tacho'd but not sure on that one, its an absolute minefield, and Vosa are really keen on this kind of thing, so you would have to research on what the VIN plate says on your van regarding weights.

If you cant justify a bigger van, sub the work out

If the gross train weight is over 3500kg you need tachograph in the van and an operators licence. The rules altered in Dec 2011.

You could tow the trailer behind a dual purpose vehicle and only need a tachograph but not behind a van.

If the total max weight of your van and the loaded trailed is 3499 kgs you may get away with it.

Stop misleading people! You need an operators' licence if the van towing the trailer is single cab. All you have to do is get a double cab pick-up (Mitsubishi L200), or a double cab van (Iveco Daily 35C is twin wheel 3500kg and can tow a 3500kg trailer). Double cab means windows in the back and side doors probably. It is exactly the opposite of a van exempt from van benefit tax. A van exempt from HMRC company van benefit has to be single cab, no rear doors or windows.

Neculau Logistics Ltd said:

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Stop misleading people! You need an operators' licence if the van towing the trailer is single cab. All you have to do is get a double cab pick-up (Mitsubishi L200), or a double cab van (Iveco Daily 35C is twin wheel 3500kg and can tow a 3500kg trailer). Double cab means windows in the back and side doors probably. It is exactly the opposite of a van exempt from van benefit tax. A van exempt from HMRC company van benefit has to be single cab, no rear doors or windows.

Sorry your very wrong as used for hire and reward it would most likely go over the 3.5 tonnes cap and would be both i licence and tacho as its used in connection with a business or the transporting of goods for hire or reward. The size of the cab has nothing to do with it

What van would you be towing with? The original question suggests that you have something like a Caddy or Berlingo but need a little more capacity. You need to check your own vehicle's spec. sheet but you will probably have a towing capacity of 1200 kgs and a van gross weight of around 2000 kgs so therefore a MAM of under 3499 kgs and not need to worry about a tachograph or other related issues.

If you can keep the trailer down to 750 kg or less then that could be a nice simple unbraked trailer.

You would still need B+E on yuor driving licence though (depending on your age)

Have been thinking about a trailer to increase my service offerings, have a combo 1.7cdti 2000. Interested to hear any views as not looked into it yet in detail. Is there work out there for it is the main question?

Legrys Express Ltd said:

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Neculau Logistics Ltd said:

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Stop misleading people! You need an operators' licence if the van towing the trailer is single cab. All you have to do is get a double cab pick-up (Mitsubishi L200), or a double cab van (Iveco Daily 35C is twin wheel 3500kg and can tow a 3500kg trailer). Double cab means windows in the back and side doors probably. It is exactly the opposite of a van exempt from van benefit tax. A van exempt from HMRC company van benefit has to be single cab, no rear doors or windows.

Sorry your very wrong as used for hire and reward it would most likely go over the 3.5 tonnes cap and would be both i licence and tacho as its used in connection with a business or the transporting of goods for hire or reward. The size of the cab has nothing to do with it

Simon from SMH is the man to ask re trailers.

If its for hire and reward you still need a tacho fitted to the vehicle, one of our lads got done in a mitsibishi shogon 4x4(family car) for towing a trailor with a car on it, because he was delivering that car for a customer and making money for the job vosa but a prohibition notice on his shogun and gave him 7 days to have a tacho fitted! Vosa are really clamping down on commercial vehicles towing trailors they are even starting to pull farmers in their landrovers taking sheep to market with trailors but all this becomes exempt if you are staying within a 50 mile radius

Bennetts Distribution said:

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If its for hire and reward you still need a tacho fitted to the vehicle, one of our lads got done in a mitsibishi shogon 4x4(family car) for towing a trailor with a car on it, because he was delivering that car for a customer and making money for the job vosa but a prohibition notice on his shogun and gave him 7 days to have a tacho fitted! Vosa are really clamping down on commercial vehicles towing trailors they are even starting to pull farmers in their landrovers taking sheep to market with trailors but all this becomes exempt if you are staying within a 50 mile radius

That is because his combined vehicle and trailer capability is more than 3500kgs.

The advantage of using a Shogun or other dual purpose vehicle as the tow vehicle is that you do not necessarily come under "O" licence requirements with all the 6 weekly inspections of both vehicle and trailer and other record keeping , whether you use it or not.

If the combined weight of the towing vehicle and the tralier as detailed in their respective specification sheet is under 3500 kgs you do not need a tachograph.

O'licence all the way (if more than GTW OF 3500KGS) unless you use a crew cab pickup but this must be fitted with a tacho, if the vehicle is registered after may 06 then is must be fitted with a digi tacho and this will be a 3rd gen (if fitted new) which vosa can download when your moving without having to stop you ;)

You will also need your driver cpc (5 days in a class room) which comes into play next september no cpc by then no licence until you do (vehicles over 3.5 ton)

Neculau Logistics Ltd said:

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Stop misleading people! You need an operators' licence if the van towing the trailer is single cab. All you have to do is get a double cab pick-up (Mitsubishi L200), or a double cab van (Iveco Daily 35C is twin wheel 3500kg and can tow a 3500kg trailer). Double cab means windows in the back and side doors probably. It is exactly the opposite of a van exempt from van benefit tax. A van exempt from HMRC company van benefit has to be single cab, no rear doors or windows.

Where do you keep your horse at night?

I think the OP needs to read this especially pages 6 & 7.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/goods-vehicle-operator-licensing-guide-gv74

It states a dual purpose vehicle for the purposes of towing to be like a Land Rover. Some Defenders are single cab pick-ups. Discoveries are Land Rovers. Discovery Commercials could be considered a van.

So many variables there is no wonder there is confusion.

Like I said "Its a minefield", I think the OP was just going to get a trailer and use it for the purpose of but its easier said than done, but as stated VOSA are keen.

How much fuel does a vehicle consume when towing?

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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How much fuel does a vehicle consume when towing?

Depends on how throttle happy you are and the type of vehicle used, I had a Toyota landcruiser 2.4d which averaged 35-40mpg, and towing a 1650kg twin axled caravan of 27ft was averaging about 28mpg, but as you know yorkshire is not known for being flat, did have a LDV 400 lwb hitop convoy also 2.4d and there was no change in mpg when towing the same caravan.

My Iveco Daily twin wheel gets 24mpg every day, empty or fully loaded, with trailer or not. I am a class1 driver so B+E is already there on the driving licence, and the analogue chart has to go in only when a trailer is being towed. Cpc courses have to be done to work as a class1 driver for hire and reward under the operator licence. I can't see why someone driving a double cab exempt from the operator licence should do the Cpc (although it only costs £150 unless you're getting mugged). Double cab or not a berlingo should be able to tow more than 1000kgs, and under 3500kgs all in all, so only B+E required. Tow bar should be rated for no more than what u're towing not to take u over 3500kgs gross train weight. Cheer up!

only when a trailer is being towed

Unless you use the trailer at the start of the week then you must run on tacho for the rest of the week for that vehicle

Cpc courses have to be done to work as a class1 driver for hire and reward

A driver cpc course has to be done by everyone driving for h&r for any vehicle over 3500kgs

Neculau Logistics Ltd said:

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My Iveco Daily twin wheel gets 24mpg every day, empty or fully loaded, with trailer or not. I am a class1 driver so B+E is already there on the driving licence, and the analogue chart has to go in only when a trailer is being towed. Cpc courses have to be done to work as a class1 driver for hire and reward under the operator licence. I can't see why someone driving a double cab exempt from the operator licence should do the Cpc (although it only costs £150 unless you're getting mugged). Double cab or not a berlingo should be able to tow more than 1000kgs, and under 3500kgs all in all, so only B+E required. Tow bar should be rated for no more than what u're towing not to take u over 3500kgs gross train weight. Cheer up!

You really do need to brush up on your facts before giving people info that is wrong

read

Thought this might clarify things! Dear Mr Bennett

Thank you for your enquiry.

A tacho is not required unless the maximum permissible mass of the vehicle, including any trailer, or semi-trailer, exceeds 3.5 tonnes. The maximum permissible mass means the maximum authorised operating mass of a vehicle when fully laden.

As long as the maximum permissible mass of your vehicle and trailer combination is below 3.5 tonnes then you do not need a tacho.

I've attached a guidebook which contains more info, in particular the flowchart on page 11 should be of assistance.

Regards

Marion Sheppard Operator Licensing and Related Schemes VOSA Ground Floor Berkeley House Croydon Street Bristol BS5 0DA

0117 954 3241

Springer Express Couriers said:

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Thought this might clarify things! Dear Mr Bennett

Thank you for your enquiry.

A tacho is not required unless the maximum permissible mass of the vehicle, including any trailer, or semi-trailer, exceeds 3.5 tonnes. The maximum permissible mass means the maximum authorised operating mass of a vehicle when fully laden.

As long as the maximum permissible mass of your vehicle and trailer combination is below 3.5 tonnes then you do not need a tacho.

I've attached a guidebook which contains more info, in particular the flowchart on page 11 should be of assistance.

Regards

Marion Sheppard Operator Licensing and Related Schemes VOSA Ground Floor Berkeley House Croydon Street Bristol BS5 0DA

0117 954 3241

Always good to get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If I were you I would carry a copy of that letter with you when you are towing so that you can instruct any over-zealous plod in the error of his or her ways if challenged... Along with a weighbridge ticket when empty.

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92452&start=30

What is the law regarding winter tyres on trailers, if you in a Country that states you must have winter tyres on your car or van between a certain period, does the trailer have to be fitted with winter tyres?

Unless you are transporting the trailer on the car roof,... yes

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Unless you are transporting the trailer on the car roof,... Yes

Good answer Alan, cheers

Dont risk going abroad without them, if caught your vehicke will be taken off road until snow tyres are fitted (at a greatly enhanced cost)

If you are involved in an accident without them, you will be spending time in prison.

They ought to be compulsory here, they are so much better in rain or sleet or snow than non M&S tyres

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Dont risk going abroad without them, if caught your vehicke will be taken off road until snow tyres are fitted (at a greatly enhanced cost)

If you are involved in an accident without them, you will be spending time in prison.

They ought to be compulsory here, they are so much better in rain or sleet or snow than non M&S tyres

Totally agree fitted to my doblo 3 years ago, went up Scotland in all weathers loved them.