Trust and quality

Does trust and quality go hand in hand?

That's debatable these days.

It should do, but no very common nowadays

I'd say so... What make you ask?

What I am trying to get at is, if you cannot trust the word of someone, on a site posting work, should he/she be even aloud to post, the quality of people being admitted to the site then comes into question, As you have said before Speed, standards need to be brought in, to get the quality, then we can trust.

Well i've suggested more than once that something be done, and the easiest place to start would be here on mtvan. If they don't take up the challenge then it's up us. Collectively, to do something about it because you're right, we need to be able to trust the people we're dealing with... And thats from both sides of the fence

The points system is some help with this, as is the payment feedback on Courier Exchange but i'm sure there is more that could be done. Does anyone have any ideas?

You should be able to trust them, they should be able to trust you at the end of the day you might be carrying there expensive/important cargo, if you can't trust each then its time to forget it.

All very well in principle, but there surely needs to be some way to make this provable and factual.

We've got topics that cover this already, for vendors --company registration number, vat certificate, pl insurance, 5 year history, for drivers--GIT insurance, courier insurance, photo driving license.

That covers the paperwork side of things but doesn't tell me how good you are, or you how reputable i am. Which is why i suggested a bronze, silver, gold and platinum entry level, which then needs ratings as a way of providing us all with peace of mind, something which both Courier Exchange and mtvan currently have.

As with anything, the longer its allowed to evolve, the better the information on it.

Let anyone join up and you are bound to get the odd rogue, which then tarnishes the site for all

http://www.mtvan.com/forum/association-of-uk-couriers

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

We've got topics that cover this already, for vendors --company registration number, vat certificate, pl insurance, 5 year history, for drivers--GIT insurance, courier insurance, photo driving license.

While I agree most of this is good sensible advice, I am not sure why you have picked '5 Years' and what relevance this has, other than 5 is better than 4 but not as good as 6.

By they way, my company was incorporated 7 years ago, so i'm not saying this for any of my own reasons. I am just interested to know where this measurement has come from?

The bronze, silver, gold, platinum idea sounds good, this way as you continue to provide a great service and prove your reliability and professionalism you become more reputable. I also think its important that everyone takes the time to leave feedback and also to check feedback before possibly undertaking work. This way the people who fall short of what is expected from a good vendor/sub-contractor would hopefully struggle to get work covered or to obtain work. I will always check feedback before undertaking work and if im not sure for any reason then I will not take a chance. Though it can always be possible to get burnt when everything seems fine on paper.

I do a good quality job and can be trusted but not been going twelve months this would put me well down the pecking order. Or maybe thats where I belong pmsl.

Esi Logistics said:

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The bronze, silver, gold, platinum idea sounds good, this way as you continue to provide a great service and prove your reliability and professionalism you become more reputable. I also think its important that everyone takes the time to leave feedback and also to check feedback before possibly undertaking work. This way the people who fall short of what is expected from a good vendor/sub-contractor would hopefully struggle to get work covered or to obtain work. I will always check feedback before undertaking work and if im not sure for any reason then I will not take a chance. Though it can always be possible to get burnt when everything seems fine on paper.

Niceley put, i agree with you 100%

BusinessBuddy said:

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I do a good quality job and can be trusted but not been going twelve months this would put me well down the pecking order. Or maybe thats where I belong pmsl.

Shouldn't matter how long you have been trading wether a person is trustworthy or not? Should it?

JH Logistics said:

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BusinessBuddy said:

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I do a good quality job and can be trusted but not been going twelve months this would put me well down the pecking order. Or maybe thats where I belong pmsl.

Shouldn't matter how long you have been trading wether a person is trustworthy or not? Should it?

I agree.

Also, one person could do 50 jobs in the last year and another could have done 20 jobs in the last 5 years. So is the newer courier less trustworthy, despite doing more jobs?

BusinessBuddy said:

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I do a good quality job and can be trusted but not been going twelve months this would put me well down the pecking order. Or maybe thats where I belong pmsl.

That is a fair point. But I think that even if you have not been going long and everyone made the effort to leave feedback then if you were on bronze level and with only a few but very good feedback entries a vendor would see that you are a trustworthy and efficient courier and very likely to offer you work and then themselves leave you good feedback. On the flipside if people made sure they left poor feedback if deserved this would mean people like you, me and others stand more of a chance of obtaining work and building our reputation.

I have only done one job from this site and I had the misfortune to have a puncture on that very same day making me miss my deadline even though I informed the vendor all the way... Does this make ME untrustworthy?

JH Logistics said:

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I have only done one job from this site and I had the misfortune to have a puncture on that very same day making me miss my deadline even though I informed the vendor all the way... Does this make ME untrustworthy?

No it doesnt, it makes you in my eyes a courier who had the misfortune of having a puncture and kept the vendor informed. A good vendor would understand this and not hold this against you. Some other people would not have bothered keeping the vendor informed and just arrive late. Its unbelievable how some people fail to grasp the simple notion of good comms, you are obviously not one of them.

JH Logistics said:

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I have only done one job from this site and I had the misfortune to have a puncture on that very same day making me miss my deadline even though I informed the vendor all the way... Does this make ME untrustworthy?

Your not still using remoulds are you?

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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JH Logistics said:

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I have only done one job from this site and I had the misfortune to have a puncture on that very same day making me miss my deadline even though I informed the vendor all the way... Does this make ME untrustworthy?

Your not still using remoulds are you?

Ha Ha was the very finest Continental... Ruined. com

Sorry chaps but some of you seem to have read my thread incorrectly, it states companys should have 5 years history, not couriers... And although this would not necessarily stop charlatans, it certainly would be a good measuring stick wouldn't it? The problem as i see it with a rating system is that if you've just joined how are you going to get that 1st job?

That is why you should be able to trust someone from the off, and that is why the majority of us want to set a standard whereby we can trust everyone who is a member.

[Admin: Multiple posts by Speed Couriers and Courier Expert removed. Please don't derail this or any other topics guys.]

Anyway, back to the thread before it was yet again hijacked for whatever motive only known to themselves.

We mostly all want a vetted site where the members are happy to carry out work on behalf of the vendor AND where the vendor is happy that the courier has all the relevant documentation AND, with the aid of a system wherby members can leave feedback, that courier can be trusted to get the job done in a professional manner.

Seems we are very close in some respects, but miles apart in others.

Mtvan says it promotes a friendly forum atmosphere.

[Admin: We try...]

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

We mostly all want a vetted site where the members are happy to carry out work on behalf of the vendor AND where the vendor is happy that the courier has all the relevant documentation AND, with the aid of a system wherby members can leave feedback, that courier can be trusted to get the job done in a professional manner.

Agreed - In a very friendly tone :-)

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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We mostly all want a vetted site where the members are happy to carry out work on behalf of the vendor AND where the vendor is happy that the courier has all the relevant documentation AND, with the aid of a system wherby members can leave feedback, that courier can be trusted to get the job done in a professional manner.

I agree, but it's not going to happen.

They said that about landing on the moon... Never say never

Or a black man as the President of the USA and the best known rapper being white... Lol... You just never know, i agree its not going to happen overnight, but it can happen, it just needs the collective to make it so

I have just had a phone call from a vendor that i do regular work for on mtvan. He has just pointed out that the pricing i give has been wrong all along. We could do with more vendors like this and that is trust and quality in my book. Thank you to the vendor that gave that advice.

Has anyone been admitted to the mtvan sin-bin yet?

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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Mtvan says it promotes a friendly forum atmosphere.

[Admin: We try...]

I like this comment

Nope... The truth will overcome... lol

How about a eBay type system? You can rate the person on each individual job and leave a comment. Also you could break it down to categories such as customer or driver so you can rate on how well they or didn't do the job on one hand and how good was the customer in relaying the info and payment. Just a thought.

ADR transport said:

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How about a eBay type system? You can rate the person on each individual job and leave a comment. Also you could break it down to categories such as customer or driver so you can rate on how well they or didn't do the job on one hand and how good was the customer in relaying the info and payment. Just a thought.

This is more or less what we have. For example... www.mtvan.com/courier-directory/speed-couriers-stansted/reputation#feedback

We take more detailed feedback than is showed there that we hope to be able to make use of in future.

Just my opinion but i think the biggest issue is by the time you find out you've used someone who really isn't up to it, or the company is a bad payer its kinda already too late.

What is needed is all the doubt to be taken away from the outset, ie to join you have more stringent guidelines, vetting, checks... Wotever, but SOMETHING that gives both vendors and those quoting, peace of mind.

Quite how you do that is open to debate, but for me, to do the reputation thing is all well and good, but it takes time to build up, so to start off with zero makes it very difficult for a newbie to ever get any work, or a new vendor to sell his work.

While i'm on the subject of reputation, i also think that if you are going to include the amount of times someone comments on the forum, then it should only do so if its a positive comment, or helpful in some way, or even a suggestion about something, but if its negative, self promoting or gets hijacked then a negaive score should apply.

Payment terms should be visible on vendors profile for all to see too.

I also think that feedback by a courier should only be given AFTER the vendor has paid, not before, that way we avoid the example of a multi seller getting good feedback before we find out he doesn't pay, by which time others have been sucked in by the premature good feedback (AET Transport wasn't it?)

So perhaps a "did you get paid on time" button to tick?

I'm a vendor so the current system works for me, but i'm sure the most important thing for a potential quoter is do i pay?

If feedback is anonymous, it's worthless.

If feedback is negative, it's open to threats of libel/slander whichever.

I don't think anyone has suggested anonymous feedback have they?

As for negative feedback, i'm assuming the receiver of negative feedback has the ability to reply?

On Courier Exchange you can also put in a formal complaint that gets looked at by the host of the site, who takes an unbiased view and decides what action to take, if applicable.

In extreme cases membership is withdrawn

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I also think that feedback by a courier should only be given AFTER the vendor has paid

I agree and it's what we intend for couriers to do. Perhaps we should spell it out more, thought it was obvious that the job isn't completed till payment is made.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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So perhaps a "did you get paid on time" button to tick?

Off the top of my head we have a 'did you have to chase payment' checkbox.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I don't think anyone has suggested anonymous feedback have they?

As for negative feedback, i'm assuming the receiver of negative feedback has the ability to reply?

On Courier Exchange you can also put in a formal complaint that gets looked at by the host of the site, who takes an unbiased view and decides what action to take, if applicable.

In extreme cases membership is withdrawn

Feedback is not anonymous. The receiver of the negative feedback can leave their accurate feedback. If something is clearly untrue (don't know why this would happen) you should contact us directly. We've never had anyone have a problem with feedback so far.

Also it's not immediately apparently but you have a 3 month (IIRC) window to leave feedback, after that you cannot do so. You cannot see the feedback that has been left against you until either you leave feedback yourself or the time window expires.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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I also think that feedback by a courier should only be given AFTER the vendor has paid, not before, that way we avoid the example of a multi seller getting good feedback before we find out he doesn't pay, by which time others have been sucked in by the premature good feedback (AET Transport wasn't it?)

So perhaps a "did you get paid on time" button to tick?

I think that is a very good point. I have given feedback before getting paid in the past, just to get rid of the screen notification, because it makes you feel like you have to do it now as it's in bold red.

I'd also like something to be considered along the lines of not getting points added to your reputation just for posting a job, I think it should only earn you points when a job is completed ie. Posted/Allocated/POD'd/Paid/Positive Feedback = Points earned. I think it would eliminate falsely high reputation scores, anyone can post a few dummy jobs and make out that they've been allocated to build up their points score, if the subbie then has to acknowledge receipt of payment it makes it more difficult to fake it. Also, eliminates the build up of points for jobs that get reposted with different vehicle details when it's the same job slightly altered due to mistakes.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

While i'm on the subject of reputation, i also think that if you are going to include the amount of times someone comments on the forum, then it should only do so if its a positive comment, or helpful in some way, or even a suggestion about something, but if its negative, self promoting or gets hijacked then a negaive score should apply.

We rarely agree, but this is the best suggestion i have ever seen from you, genius :-)

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

While i'm on the subject of reputation, i also think that if you are going to include the amount of times someone comments on the forum, and if its negative, self promoting then a negative score should apply.

We rarely agree, but this is the best suggestion i have ever seen from you, genius :-)

Ohh there is a god.... yes please and bring it on and ban them...

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

self promoting or gets hijacked then a negaive score should apply.

We rarely agree, but this is the best suggestion i have ever seen from you, genius :-)

Blimey - courier expert you will need to post much more work in order to keep your reputation score positive! ;-)

HSP Couriers said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

self promoting or gets hijacked then a negaive score should apply.

We rarely agree, but this is the best suggestion i have ever seen from you, genius :-)

Blimey - courier expert you will need to post much more work in order to keep your reputation score positive! ;-)

Either that or i'll post even more positive stuff on the forum :-)

God help us all! :-0

Enson Express said:

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If feedback is anonymous, it's worthless.

If feedback is negative, it's open to threats of libel/slander whichever.

And you will be receiving both. Steve Hancock, Director, City Connect Couriers Ltd.

Yes enson. How dare you post details of an easily accessible to anyone detail of an out of date web page you nasty man.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I don't believe any was slanderous, a bit naive possibly (with regard to the workings of virtual offices)

MK Bikes said:

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I don't believe any was slanderous, a bit naive possibly (with regard to the workings of virtual offices)

Slanderous or not, we don't welcome calling another business or individual into question based on a hunch.

SMC Express said:

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Yes enson. How dare you post details of an easily accessible to anyone detail of an out of date web page you nasty man.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Maybe if you intend to try and discredit a company you at least use a reliable source, not one that is open to every Tom, Dick and Harry to comment/edit. But as website admin have said if you have these suspicions you take it to them rather than an open forum which may mean someone decides not to work with us based on your false information.

So, what you are saying is that the company at this same address is not someone you with to be associated with as it would adversely affect your business.

Is that not slander?