Courier Expert Listings

Does anyone actually do any work for this lot or do they just list work for the fun of it. You never here back from them, they never up date the listing it just sits there doing nothing. If they want people to cover the work, why the lack of communication from them. To admin, once the booking is over 24 hours past it's collection time why don't you remove the listing.

I done 1 the other day for them, only because a driver let them down and decided he didn't want to do it. Even tho I done this job for them, it wasn't allocated to me on the mtvan system which got me wondering why. I agree on a on an expiry date/time tho. When I use the app, i'm still getting alerts from jobs posted a week ago. Obviously its not available anymore when pick & delivery is asap

I just get 'you were unsuccessful' every time. Everybody has someone they will choose over someone else its human nature. Car jobs at 54p just aint worth it.

PHAX said:

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I just get 'you were unsuccessful' every time. Everybody has someone they will choose over someone else its human nature. Car jobs at 54p just aint worth it.

Agreed but small van jobs @ 60pplm isn't worth it either that's why my price is higher than both of them

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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PHAX said:

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I just get 'you were unsuccessful' every time. Everybody has someone they will choose over someone else its human nature. Car jobs at 54p just aint worth it.

Agreed but small van jobs @ 60pplm isn't worth it either that's why my price is higher than both of them

I don't know what price they are happy with. Ive quoted less than 60pplm, backload rates, and not heard a dickybird. I agree with PT's comments. When did they last allocate a job to anyone on mtvan? I see no evidence of any so why do they post them?

Thanks for the replies, if they r only paying 60ppm I won't be doing any work for them, I can sit at home and earn nothing. Then my next question is, do the people willing to do the booking in a car for 54ppm have all the right insurances. I would never use a car for courier work, doesn't look good and I'm sure a lot of my fellow couriers would not use a car

PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Thanks for the replies, if they r only paying 60ppm I won't be doing any work for them, I can sit at home and earn nothing. Then my next question is, do the people willing to do the booking in a car for 54ppm have all the right insurances. I would never use a car for courier work, doesn't look good and I'm sure a lot of my fellow couriers would not use a car

I've given out plenty of work that would fit in a car, but I wouldn't dream of sending one to any of my customers. The first question I would get is, are they insured correctly. I've know that there is plenty of so called couriers that do use cars and when they get pulled over by mr police man, the insurance only covers them for personal use. Cars for me is a big NO NO. It does my head in, because people that are legit lose out because of these amatuers

RGM Courier Services said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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PHAX said:

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I just get 'you were unsuccessful' every time. Everybody has someone they will choose over someone else its human nature. Car jobs at 54p just aint worth it.

Agreed but small van jobs @ 60pplm isn't worth it either that's why my price is higher than both of them

I don't know what price they are happy with. Ive quoted less than 60pplm, backload rates, and not heard a dickybird. I agree with PT's comments. When did they last allocate a job to anyone on mtvan? I see no evidence of any so why do they post them?

Yeah me aswell, but even when I do quote on jobs, it get posted on Courier Exchange anyway

Cars?

I know couriers who drive around in estate cars. Purely because they can no longer afford the luxury of having a van for work and a car when not working. Who fancies driving their family around in a van?

I suggest the addition of a car when posting work is for a different reason. Its nothing to do with the customer asking for a car, its because some are offering cars as a cheaper alternative to a van.Thereby making it an option the customer never used to have. An alternative that didn't exist until some bright spark realised they could entice more people into the industry without the expense of buying a van... And insuring it as a courier. Those same people who don't realise they need courier insurance, or just don't care.

I have NEVER been asked for a car, and I have never offered work for a car.

If it isn't to entice car drivers without the relevant insurance then please explain why they are offered as a cheaper alternative to a van? How are the running costs cheaper?

You all know the answer to that one

PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Does anyone actually do any work for this lot or do they just list work for the fun of it. You never here back from them, they never up date the listing it just sits there doing nothing. If they want people to cover the work, why the lack of communication from them. To admin, once the booking is over 24 hours past it's collection time why don't you remove the listing.

One of the reasons you don't hear back is because it is not a real job. Its a potential job I. E a customer has requested a price on his web page. He then puts it out as a job just in case he gets the booking. Makes him look busy but I wonder how many turn in to a real booking.

I agree with Mr Speed, I'm glad other couriers feel the same way as I do about using a car for courier work, i think it's pretty obvious to all of us why CE offer the car option, just so they can get any tom, dick or harry to do the work, no offence is intended to any tom, dick or harry it's just a saying. Have a good day, regards Paul@PT Express

PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Does anyone actually do any work for this lot or do they just list work for the fun of it. You never here back from them, they never up date the listing it just sits there doing nothing. If they want people to cover the work, why the lack of communication from them. To admin, once the booking is over 24 hours past it's collection time why don't you remove the listing.

Hello PT Express.

Your point is noted about the 24 hour past collection/remove listing. It's on our short list of things to improve.

Regarding the question about do they cover their work, I believe they do regularly. The comment above about not being allocated the job is possibly the case quite often though. If you check their feedback you get a snapshot of some of the work that they have allocated. You can only leave feedback if you're allocated a job, and even then it is not mandatory to do so.

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Thanks for the replies, if they r only paying 60ppm I won't be doing any work for them, I can sit at home and earn nothing. Then my next question is, do the people willing to do the booking in a car for 54ppm have all the right insurances. I would never use a car for courier work, doesn't look good and I'm sure a lot of my fellow couriers would not use a car

I've given out plenty of work that would fit in a car, but I wouldn't dream of sending one to any of my customers. The first question I would get is, are they insured correctly. I've know that there is plenty of so called couriers that do use cars and when they get pulled over by mr police man, the insurance only covers them for personal use. Cars for me is a big NO NO. It does my head in, because people that are legit lose out because of these amatuers

My thoughts exactly mate

GJC EXPRESS COURIER said:

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PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Does anyone actually do any work for this lot or do they just list work for the fun of it. You never here back from them, they never up date the listing it just sits there doing nothing. If they want people to cover the work, why the lack of communication from them. To admin, once the booking is over 24 hours past it's collection time why don't you remove the listing.

One of the reasons you don't hear back is because it is not a real job. Its a potential job I. E a customer has requested a price on his web page. He then puts it out as a job just in case he gets the booking. Makes him look busy but I wonder how many turn in to a real booking.

Every job posted into mtvan is a real job. Potential jobs do exist, but they stay strictly within our own network, we do not seek quotes from anywhere else until the job is actually booked and needs a courier to cover it.

Andy

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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I done 1 the other day for them, only because a driver let them down and decided he didn't want to do it. Even tho I done this job for them, it wasn't allocated to me on the mtvan system which got me wondering why. I agree on a on an expiry date/time tho. When I use the app, i'm still getting alerts from jobs posted a week ago. Obviously its not available anymore when pick & delivery is asap

The controller must have forgotten to do it, we are human :)

Andy

Website Admin said:

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PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Does anyone actually do any work for this lot or do they just list work for the fun of it. You never here back from them, they never up date the listing it just sits there doing nothing. If they want people to cover the work, why the lack of communication from them. To admin, once the booking is over 24 hours past it's collection time why don't you remove the listing.

Hello PT Express.

****Your point is noted about the 24 hour past collection/remove listing. It's on our short list of things to improve.****

Regarding the question about do they cover their work, I believe they do regularly. The comment above about not being allocated the job is possibly the case quite often though. If you check their feedback you get a snapshot of some of the work that they have allocated. You can only leave feedback if you're allocated a job, and even then it is not mandatory to do so.

Agreed, this would be a good feature, I am fed up of telling the controllers they must keep it up to date!

Andy

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Cars?

I know couriers who drive around in estate cars. Purely because they can no longer afford the luxury of having a van for work and a car when not working. Who fancies driving their family around in a van?

I suggest the addition of a car when posting work is for a different reason. Its nothing to do with the customer asking for a car, its because some are offering cars as a cheaper alternative to a van.Thereby making it an option the customer never used to have. An alternative that didn't exist until some bright spark realised they could entice more people into the industry without the expense of buying a van... And insuring it as a courier. Those same people who don't realise they need courier insurance, or just don't care.

I have NEVER been asked for a car, and I have never offered work for a car.

If it isn't to entice car drivers without the relevant insurance then please explain why they are offered as a cheaper alternative to a van? How are the running costs cheaper?

You all know the answer to that one

If a customer wants us to transport an envelope or lever arch file, we recommended a car. It's not rocket science, just charge the customer the minimum needed to get the job done. If I ordered a taxi for 1 person, i would not expect a people carrier - nor to be charged for one :)

Andy

PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Thanks for the replies, if they r only paying 60ppm I won't be doing any work for them, I can sit at home and earn nothing. Then my next question is, do the people willing to do the booking in a car for 54ppm have all the right insurances. I would never use a car for courier work, doesn't look good and I'm sure a lot of my fellow couriers would not use a car

We pay the best price quoted within the timescale needed to do the pick up. If you look at our feedback, plenty have testified to having their price accepted without quibble.

Andy

Phew, time to draw breath! It's nearly 7pm and i'm ready for the easter break, but that's just wishful thinking as something tells me i might get drawn back into this thread later on :)

Andy

If it isn't to entice car drivers without the relevant insurance then please explain why they are offered as a cheaper alternative to a van? How are the running costs cheaper?

You all know the answer to that one

If a customer wants us to transport an envelope or lever arch file, we recommended a car. It's not rocket science, just charge the customer the minimum needed to get the job done. If I ordered a taxi for 1 person, i would not expect a people carrier - nor to be charged for one :)

Andy

Kinda missing the point but used to that. I think you know exactly what's being said but choose to either ignore it, or avoid it. Good to know some things don't change... lol

[I am fed up of telling the controllers they must keep it up to date] Get new ones that listen!

Courier Expert said:

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If a customer wants us to transport an envelope or lever arch file, we recommended a car. It's not rocket science, just charge the customer the minimum needed to get the job done. If I ordered a taxi for 1 person, i would not expect a people carrier - nor to be charged for one :)

Andy

Thats Bike work!

I would quite happily take a bet on the majority of a random hundred car couriers not being insured correctly.

Using cars is dragging the industry down not up!

I got a job from them a week or so ago came out of the blue as I hadn't even quoted for it or even notice on the system. I actually got a very good rate for the job so can't argue from that perspective. However, I could have got that job because I had been moaning for a few weeks prior about prices being put forward on a lot of jobs from certain "couriers" and how these prices were clearly un-doable, such as atrip of 201 miles for £69 which works out at 34p per mile! When taking into account the distance from home to pick up and then from delivery to home the whole trip was in excess of 600 miles! Therefore the rate would then reduce to less than 11p per mile. The comment received back for this was "it could have been a back load etc or there could have been a backload organised from the drop off point. I understand and accept both those comments however, the quotes were two weeks or so prior to the run. I would really love to be able to know what runs I had booked in two weeks time. I dont even know what I will be doing this afternoon! Since then I have quoted on several jobs both sameday and economic and get the same response either just before or just after the pick up time for the job, "unfortunately, "on this occasion you have been unsuccessful...". What I really find a bit sus is that it is the same two or three "couriers" bidding on these jobs and all they seem to do is drive the price of jobs down to an unviable level. Possibly, it is going to get to the stage that these two or three guys will end up getting every job, what will happen when they are too busy to do all the jobs what happens to the jobs they have quoted on but cant do? Does the price then revert to a more sensible level to make it doable?

I think it is just lifestyle drivers who want to get away from her indoors and get a little pay into the bargain. Or to pay to take the wife out for the day. It certainly aint any good for the good guys who are doing this job as a business not a fun day out.

The thing with car 'couriers' being under-insured, is what they are carrying is usually something small that they can conceal, so if pulled up by Mr Policeman, he's just out for a drive somewhere and not in a working capacity, an easy get out.

A lot of the overnighters use lifestyle couriers with cars, they only need business use insurance, not courier insurance, public liability, Good-in-Transit, which is a hell of a difference in cost. I have full insurances in place, my price is my price, if someone wants a job doing, it's at my price, take it or leave it, i have enough proper paying work to not to have to bother with reverse auction bidding.

MK BIKES said:

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Courier Expert said:

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If a customer wants us to transport an envelope or lever arch file, we recommended a car. It's not rocket science, just charge the customer the minimum needed to get the job done. If I ordered a taxi for 1 person, i would not expect a people carrier - nor to be charged for one :)

Andy

Thats Bike work!

Indeed it is, but bikers generally want a higher rate per mile than a car. So unless the customer actually needs the extra speediness of a bike - and are prepared to pay for it, then unfortunately it isn't going to happen :)

Andy

" I have full insurances in place, my price is my price, if someone wants a job doing, it's at my price, take it or leave it, i have enough proper paying work to not to have to bother with reverse auction bidding."

My sentiments exactly.

GeeGee vans said:

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I got a job from them a week or so ago came out of the blue as I hadn't even quoted for it or even notice on the system. I actually got a very good rate for the job so can't argue from that perspective. However, I could have got that job because I had been moaning for a few weeks prior about prices being put forward on a lot of jobs from certain "couriers" and how these prices were clearly un-doable, such as atrip of 201 miles for £69 which works out at 34p per mile! When taking into account the distance from home to pick up and then from delivery to home the whole trip was in excess of 600 miles! Therefore the rate would then reduce to less than 11p per mile. The comment received back for this was "it could have been a back load etc or there could have been a backload organised from the drop off point. I understand and accept both those comments however, the quotes were two weeks or so prior to the run. I would really love to be able to know what runs I had booked in two weeks time. I dont even know what I will be doing this afternoon! Since then I have quoted on several jobs both sameday and economic and get the same response either just before or just after the pick up time for the job, "unfortunately, "on this occasion you have been unsuccessful...". What I really find a bit sus is that it is the same two or three "couriers" bidding on these jobs and all they seem to do is drive the price of jobs down to an unviable level. Possibly, it is going to get to the stage that these two or three guys will end up getting every job, what will happen when they are too busy to do all the jobs what happens to the jobs they have quoted on but cant do? Does the price then revert to a more sensible level to make it doable?

I guess we are talking about economy jobs here?

I am only putting forward an opinion, not stating any known facts, but I do believe these drivers are bidding low for future jobs, in the hope of getting the first one in the bag, then building other jobs around it by bidding even more aggressively, knowing they have covered at least the fuel on the first delivery. Yes, it leaves a lot to chance and yes, it might mean doing the occasional job for no profit, but if you make a profit on the rest of them, it might just work.

Certainly many businesses work on the above principle, of making a profit on some tasks, breaking even on others, and making a slight loss on a few. Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, but as long as we make a margin on most of them, when we add the overall figures up at the end of the month, it more or less works out :)

Andy

MK BIKES said:

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Using cars is dragging the industry down not up!

Budget airlines suffered fierce criticism from their competitors for stripping away unnecessary extras like inflight meals, baggage that business travelers don't often carry and other things customers didn't really need. Same principle applies here, you don't need to transport an envelope or lever arch file 100 miles in an empty van!

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Andy

There really is nothing wrong with using the most appropriate vehicle for the job, and sometimes that can well be a car /estate car which doesn't suffer the same speed restrictions as many SLV's.

When a passport delivery is urgent does your customer expect you to use the quickest vehicle available or a VW Caddy which is restricted to 60mph on a dual carriageway and 50mph on a single carriageway "A" road.

If the load is a small sub 400kg pallet then the SLV with it's associated restrictions would be the better choice of vehicle.

We expect to pay circa 66p / LM for a car and circa 70p / LM for an SLV but actually use a combination of round trip mileage for the most appropriate vehicle (even if that vehicle is not actually available) or cost plus **% to charge our customers.

Courier Expert said:

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GeeGee vans said:

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I got a job from them a week or so ago came out of the blue as I hadn't even quoted for it or even notice on the system. I actually got a very good rate for the job so can't argue from that perspective. However, I could have got that job because I had been moaning for a few weeks prior about prices being put forward on a lot of jobs from certain "couriers" and how these prices were clearly un-doable, such as atrip of 201 miles for £69 which works out at 34p per mile! When taking into account the distance from home to pick up and then from delivery to home the whole trip was in excess of 600 miles! Therefore the rate would then reduce to less than 11p per mile. The comment received back for this was "it could have been a back load etc or there could have been a backload organised from the drop off point. I understand and accept both those comments however, the quotes were two weeks or so prior to the run. I would really love to be able to know what runs I had booked in two weeks time. I dont even know what I will be doing this afternoon! Since then I have quoted on several jobs both sameday and economic and get the same response either just before or just after the pick up time for the job, "unfortunately, "on this occasion you have been unsuccessful...". What I really find a bit sus is that it is the same two or three "couriers" bidding on these jobs and all they seem to do is drive the price of jobs down to an unviable level. Possibly, it is going to get to the stage that these two or three guys will end up getting every job, what will happen when they are too busy to do all the jobs what happens to the jobs they have quoted on but cant do? Does the price then revert to a more sensible level to make it doable?

I guess we are talking about economy jobs here?

I am only putting forward an opinion, not stating any known facts, but I do believe these drivers are bidding low for future jobs, in the hope of getting the first one in the bag, then building other jobs around it by bidding even more aggressively, knowing they have covered at least the fuel on the first delivery. Yes, it leaves a lot to chance and yes, it might mean doing the occasional job for no profit, but if you make a profit on the rest of them, it might just work.

Certainly many businesses work on the above principle, of making a profit on some tasks, breaking even on others, and making a slight loss on a few. Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, but as long as we make a margin on most of them, when we add the overall figures up at the end of the month, it more or less works out :)

Andy

Andy that wasn't the point I was trying to make but I do appreciate and understand your comments. This will undoubtedly rake up old ground but effectively, to try and put it into a nutshell, If we quote/bid/offer for an advertised job either economic or sameday there are at least three criteria to take into account- mileage to pick up, distance of job and mileage from drop off or in other words the mileage for the whole trip and the cost of fuel to do said mileage, (assuming no backloads are available). You then have the time factor as you have to allow for your time in doing the job so you have to try and guess how long the job will take and if the pplm covers the cost of fuel and time then it is doable. The other points to take into account is the set up and running costs apart from the fuel of being a courier such as the correct insurance cover, keeping your vehicle fully serviced and roadworthy (mine is serviced twice an month, oil and filters as a minimum) in order to offer a professional and reliable service. To do this you have to run at a viable level to cover the basic costs. I understand the point about using a van to deliver an envelope or box etc that can be taken in a car, so does that mean I should then exclude myself from quoting/bidding or offering a price to do a job that can also be done by a car? Personally I cannot see the difference between using either other than the fact that it is much cheaper to insure a car which would allow a lower quote/bid/offer as the set up and running costs are much lower. By the same token, does it exclude those "couriers" who dont have a van to quote/bid/offer for contracts that are specific for either? As a bona fida courier I have a fully legal van with all the correct insurances, I also have a car which is also road legal but not covered for hire and reward, should I upgrade my insurance to cover this and use this vehicle to quote/bid/offer for envelope or small box deliveries only? On this point, I have done a lot of deliveries of documents, small boxes, tins of paint etc, apart from one or two jobs that were on pallets everything I have ever delivered I could have taken in a car. I have not once ever had a comment from a client/other courier about using a van for a delivery that could have been done by a car. If these aggressive quotes are to be believed and your income from that said job is only 5% as you claim with a £5 administration fee on one of the contracts I have seen if the lowest bid is the successful one then you would stand to earn £3.45 plus £5 giving an income of £8.45 for that contract. You must have to do an awful lot of contracts in order to cover your operating costs at those rates

What % mark up any vendor 'makes' is no one else's business! What they charge their customer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the person taking on the job.

If you are happy to do a job at what suits you, that is it! If you can't make money on any job offered, DON'T DO IT! also relying on that horrible word backload is foolish.

It's a pity people can't work out the basics, without relying on a so called 'going rate' which in reality there is no such thing.

If people refused to work for a pittance, it would be alot better for everyone!

Courier Expert said:

Budget airlines suffered fierce criticism from their competitors for stripping away unnecessary extras like inflight meals, baggage that business travelers don't often carry and other things customers didn't really need. Same principle applies here, you don't need to transport an envelope or lever arch file 100 miles in an empty van!

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Andy

The similarities are quite remarkable to the courier industry. Being a pilot used to be a respectable proffession. Nowadays a pilot will have to find £80,000 to obtain their license, then beg for a job with an airline, and pay for the priviledge of being type rated in the company's simulator at a further £20,000. A budget airline copilot will earn about the same as a van driver, and have to repay all this debt. As long as the bean counters are happy, that is all that maters, right? Who cares about people making a decent living?

RLT please dont misunderstand what I am trying to get at. I have absolutely no interest in what anyone else earns, what I do have an interest in is what I can earn- if my earning potential is being eroded at an alarming rate then I feel I have the right to make points about it. I had the same happen on a number of occasions in a previous industry when people would quote ridiculously low rates in order to get the job and then when they turned up on the job the company got " oh sorry mate, didnt realise this that and the other so we can't do the job for that it will have to be this" when they were shown the door the companies would come back to the gangs they had used and trusted before but with a lower rate because the rate level had been driven lower by the cowboy. This is what I fear is happening here. My point about the 5% was- it is now secret that MT/CE "charge" 5% on top of the accepted quote plus £5 administration charge. To my way of thinking, if you are running a business then you need to make as much profit as possible and charging 5% on a successful bid is one way of earning profit, what I dont understand is- it must be so obvious that by keeping a price higher then a percentage charge works so much better, after all 5% of 100 is better that 5% 0f 69 or 50 or even 35 which is what some of these economic jobs get as low as. Once it becomes an auction then there is no point in bidding/offering/quoting for work when it gets below the level you can work for.

GeeGee vans said:

Andy that wasn't the point I was trying to make but I do appreciate and understand your comments. This will undoubtedly rake up old ground but effectively, to try and put it into a nutshell, If we quote/bid/offer for an advertised job either economic or sameday there are at least three criteria to take into account- mileage to pick up, distance of job and mileage from drop off or in other words the mileage for the whole trip and the cost of fuel to do said mileage, (assuming no backloads are available). You then have the time factor as you have to allow for your time in doing the job so you have to try and guess how long the job will take and if the pplm covers the cost of fuel and time then it is doable. The other points to take into account is the set up and running costs apart from the fuel of being a courier such as the correct insurance cover, keeping your vehicle fully serviced and roadworthy (mine is serviced twice an month, oil and filters as a minimum) in order to offer a professional and reliable service. To do this you have to run at a viable level to cover the basic costs. I understand the point about using a van to deliver an envelope or box etc that can be taken in a car, so does that mean I should then exclude myself from quoting/bidding or offering a price to do a job that can also be done by a car? Personally I cannot see the difference between using either other than the fact that it is much cheaper to insure a car which would allow a lower quote/bid/offer as the set up and running costs are much lower. By the same token, does it exclude those "couriers" who dont have a van to quote/bid/offer for contracts that are specific for either? As a bona fida courier I have a fully legal van with all the correct insurances, I also have a car which is also road legal but not covered for hire and reward, should I upgrade my insurance to cover this and use this vehicle to quote/bid/offer for envelope or small box deliveries only? On this point, I have done a lot of deliveries of documents, small boxes, tins of paint etc, apart from one or two jobs that were on pallets everything I have ever delivered I could have taken in a car. I have not once ever had a comment from a client/other courier about using a van for a delivery that could have been done by a car. If these aggressive quotes are to be believed and your income from that said job is only 5% as you claim with a £5 administration fee on one of the contracts I have seen if the lowest bid is the successful one then you would stand to earn £3.45 plus £5 giving an income of £8.45 for that contract. You must have to do an awful lot of contracts in order to cover your operating costs at those rates

I think one of the reasons a car is cheaper to run, is because you can combine it with work and your private life, one vehicle covers both. Whereas a van, is an additional cost on top of running your car.

Regarding your situation, if you already have a van, then of course quote on car work. Just bear in mind the going rate is a bit lower, whichever type of vehicle you use,

As for our economy margin, you are correct, we do not make much money from it, what more do you want me to say? :)

Andy

GeeGee vans said:

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RLT please dont misunderstand what I am trying to get at. I have absolutely no interest in what anyone else earns, what I do have an interest in is what I can earn- if my earning potential is being eroded at an alarming rate then I feel I have the right to make points about it. I had the same happen on a number of occasions in a previous industry when people would quote ridiculously low rates in order to get the job and then when they turned up on the job the company got " oh sorry mate, didnt realise this that and the other so we can't do the job for that it will have to be this" when they were shown the door the companies would come back to the gangs they had used and trusted before but with a lower rate because the rate level had been driven lower by the cowboy. This is what I fear is happening here. My point about the 5% was- it is now secret that MT/CE "charge" 5% on top of the accepted quote plus £5 administration charge. To my way of thinking, if you are running a business then you need to make as much profit as possible and charging 5% on a successful bid is one way of earning profit, what I dont understand is- it must be so obvious that by keeping a price higher then a percentage charge works so much better, after all 5% of 100 is better that 5% 0f 69 or 50 or even 35 which is what some of these economic jobs get as low as. Once it becomes an auction then there is no point in bidding/offering/quoting for work when it gets below the level you can work for.

I think you have made a mistake there, yes that is our economy charge, but it has nothing to do with mtvan, we do not even advertise our economy jobs on this website.

Andy

As I said Don't be concerned about anything other than what you need to earn. It is none of your business, so if the price does not suit, just turn it down! If drivers did the job correctly without relying on non existent backloads, the vendor would have no choice other than to offer a better price. It is simple to work out but many seem too inept.

.

[NOT AIMED at ANYONE in Particular, just a generalisation]

Courier Expert said:

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GeeGee vans said:

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RLT please dont misunderstand what I am trying to get at. I have absolutely no interest in what anyone else earns, what I do have an interest in is what I can earn- if my earning potential is being eroded at an alarming rate then I feel I have the right to make points about it. I had the same happen on a number of occasions in a previous industry when people would quote ridiculously low rates in order to get the job and then when they turned up on the job the company got " oh sorry mate, didnt realise this that and the other so we can't do the job for that it will have to be this" when they were shown the door the companies would come back to the gangs they had used and trusted before but with a lower rate because the rate level had been driven lower by the cowboy. This is what I fear is happening here. My point about the 5% was- it is now secret that MT/CE "charge" 5% on top of the accepted quote plus £5 administration charge. To my way of thinking, if you are running a business then you need to make as much profit as possible and charging 5% on a successful bid is one way of earning profit, what I dont understand is- it must be so obvious that by keeping a price higher then a percentage charge works so much better, after all 5% of 100 is better that 5% 0f 69 or 50 or even 35 which is what some of these economic jobs get as low as. Once it becomes an auction then there is no point in bidding/offering/quoting for work when it gets below the level you can work for.

I think you have made a mistake there, yes that is our economy charge, but it has nothing to do with mtvan, we do not even advertise our economy jobs on this website.

Andy

Sorry Andy didn't mean to implicate mtvans, was probably just because I was on the chat room.

Courier Expert said:

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I think one of the reasons a car is cheaper to run, is because you can combine it with work and your private life, one vehicle covers both. Whereas a van, is an additional cost on top of running your car.

Regarding your situation, if you already have a van, then of course quote on car work. Just bear in mind the going rate is a bit lower, whichever type of vehicle you use,

So how does that explain why bikers "generally want more" when a bike can have a dual use?

It has more to do with car users having no idea of the real cost of using their vehicle to do work in, don't factor in the purchase or upkeep of the vehicle and accept peanuts to work in them, not to mention not bothering with the cost of the extra insurance (or getting cheaper inappropriate cover if they do bother!). My bike insurance is about 3-4 times what it would be for standard SDP (or probably business use for that matter)

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Do they want folk driving cars with questionable insurance cover? People using cars are not trail blazers they are corner cutters

Courier Expert may work out for a few people.. If you are a same day professional courier why do you care? do your work, apply if you want to... you wont get a job at a decent rate so move on :)

I am on both sites and to be honest in my opinion CE is a waste of time, effort and money. DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT!

Front page quote.. "With 3000 of our own Couriers across every town and city, Courier Expert are simply the UK’s Largest, Same Day Courier Network" ... in your dreams!!

Ok, so why if they have so much coverage do they even need to post on mtvan?

I have personally applied for quite a few jobs on their site within minutes of a notification.. mainly jobs that are local to me (30 minutes or so) and agreeing to their terms..

Invariably they post it here 10 minutes later? (after I had applied) I would guess they are looking for a cheaper option to bag some profit... as Andy says if it is posted here it is a "real job".

A quick example.. a job came up on Thursday 17/04 as a sameday for Tuesday 22/4.. pre-book, so sounded nice and I applied.

CRV5109395UCT7633 L16 3GE to G84 8HL - 260 miles 283.40 ex VAT ... so 141.70 to the courier @ circa 54.5p plm. (not even near the 60p plm quoted by Andy)

I had not heard about the job so checked the website earlier today.. status was now "booked" and the rate was now 226.00 ish ex VAT so now down to a backload rate at 43.5 plm. I knew I wasn't getting the job (not that I would have done it at that rate) so applied for a few more. I got a rejection email/notification at about 18:00 tonight.

The job is still on mtvan with quotes from a number of members... I don't mind the lack of work but phantom (POTENTIAL) jobs and a total lack of response ... I work real time so it does not work for me!!

LOL

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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What % mark up any vendor 'makes' is no one else's business! What they charge their customer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the person taking on the job.

If you are happy to do a job at what suits you, that is it! If you can't make money on any job offered, DON'T DO IT! also relying on that horrible word backload is foolish.

It's a pity people can't work out the basics, without relying on a so called 'going rate' which in reality there is no such thing.

If people refused to work for a pittance, it would be alot better for everyone!

Couldnt have put it better myshelf

Courier Expert said:

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Website Admin said:

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PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Does anyone actually do any work for this lot or do they just list work for the fun of it. You never here back from them, they never up date the listing it just sits there doing nothing. If they want people to cover the work, why the lack of communication from them. To admin, once the booking is over 24 hours past it's collection time why don't you remove the listing.

Hello PT Express.

****Your point is noted about the 24 hour past collection/remove listing. It's on our short list of things to improve.****

Regarding the question about do they cover their work, I believe they do regularly. The comment above about not being allocated the job is possibly the case quite often though. If you check their feedback you get a snapshot of some of the work that they have allocated. You can only leave feedback if you're allocated a job, and even then it is not mandatory to do so.

Agreed, this would be a good feature, I am fed up of telling the controllers they must keep it up to date!

Andy

But your on here now so why dont you remove them?

Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

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Using cars is dragging the industry down not up!

Budget airlines suffered fierce criticism from their competitors for stripping away unnecessary extras like inflight meals, baggage that business travelers don't often carry and other things customers didn't really need. Same principle applies here, you don't need to transport an envelope or lever arch file 100 miles in an empty van!

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Andy

Lol, what a flimsy excuse.

When did the legal requirement for proper insurance cover become an unnecessary extra?

Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

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Using cars is dragging the industry down not up!

Budget airlines suffered fierce criticism from their competitors for stripping away unnecessary extras like inflight meals, baggage that business travelers don't often carry and other things customers didn't really need. Same principle applies here, you don't need to transport an envelope or lever arch file 100 miles in an empty van!

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Andy

What customers want, and what is legally possible are 2 completely different things.

I'm surprised that what you are advocating is taking so long to be seen for what it is.

And if Michael O'Leary is what you aspire to then that just about sums you up in a nutshell... lol

Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, HOW. Just 99.9999999% Sameday jobs jump to Economy jobs in a matter of minutes, we dont know the customer does get the reduced price. We are told they are happy with economy rather than sameday on cost alone. And 90% of jobs are cars. Forgive me if my facts are not 100% factual.

It should also be pointed out that a small van is actually a few pence per mile more expensive to run than a small van.

So there is no reason at all to expect lower rates just because it goes in a car.

I would even guess that your retail customer demanded that you stop placing the retail jobs on here due to the amount of improperly insured 15 year old cars turning up to collect the goods.

Personally I am really enjoying reading through this thread because it just shows how CE says one thing, but does something completely different.

It seems to be that his 1st, 2nd and 3rd major concerns are getting as low a price as possible, and...that's it.

As for the numerous times I have seen him say that "many people have done work for CE at their quoted rate", I don't doubt this for a moment. However, what he really means is that once there was less than 1hr to collection time and he hadn't had a quote low enough, he then just took whatever the lowest quote received was.

The end result is (and this if for all the newbies out there!),

Don't be tricked into offering low prices as a means of "getting your foot in the door" or "generating repeat business", it's a false promise.

Yes, you will get return business, but Courier Companies who operate like this will only keep giving you work whilst you are willing to run around for peanuts. The moment you try and raise the price, they move on to the next cheapest newbie.

Don't be tricked into offering low prices on the basis of possible co/back loads. Extra loads and back loads are a rare exception rather than the norm. On 99% of the jobs that a same day courier does, it is quite simply pick up X at address A and deliver to address B.

(A little caveat to the above is that co loads are frowned upon as they will almost always cause you to be delayed for BOTH deliveries.)

The end result is, make sure that any job you do recompenses you adequately for the round trip and the time and effort it takes so that you never return home wishing you had never turned the key in the first place.

It is the following comment which I have cut and pasted from one of CE's posts which to me beggars belief and defies any logic or defense.

Quote: I am only putting forward an opinion, not stating any known facts, but I do believe these drivers are bidding low for future jobs, in the hope of getting the first one in the bag, then building other jobs around it by bidding even more aggressively, knowing they have covered at least the fuel on the first delivery. Yes, it leaves a lot to chance and yes, it might mean doing the occasional job for no profit, but if you make a profit on the rest of them, it might just work.

Certainly many businesses work on the above principle, of making a profit on some tasks, breaking even on others, and making a slight loss on a few. Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, but as long as we make a margin on most of them, when we add the overall figures up at the end of the month, it more or less works out :) End Quote.

If you as a courier driver ever "finish a job having only covered your fuel or worse still, making a small loss as CE suggests, then you should most definitely consider a career change.

The courier driver should never only break even and most definitely should NEVER make a loss.

It is companies with ideology such as this which financially rapes the uninformed newbie and keeps this industry flooded with rusting, improperly insured sheds on wheels.

No courier company worth it's salt would ever expect a subbie to take a loss!

So newbies, beware of courier companies who spout crap like this and get out and look for those that pay proper rates, there are plenty of them out there in all of the industrial estates all around your area. Stay away from the big organisations (they are all about price), look for the smaller independant companies who understand the industry and value the service that a good courier offers.

GOOD POST!!

Scott Reid said:

---

It should also be pointed out that a small van is actually a few pence per mile more expensive to run than a small van.

So there is no reason at all to expect lower rates just because it goes in a car.

?? I guess you meant to say "is actually a few pence more expensive than a small car?

With a decent sized motorbike coming in above these.

Scott Reid said:

---

It should also be pointed out that a small van is actually a few pence per mile more expensive to run than a small van.

So there is no reason at all to expect lower rates just because it goes in a car.

I would even guess that your retail customer demanded that you stop placing the retail jobs on here due to the amount of improperly insured 15 year old cars turning up to collect the goods.

Personally I am really enjoying reading through this thread because it just shows how CE says one thing, but does something completely different.

It seems to be that his 1st, 2nd and 3rd major concerns are getting as low a price as possible, and...that's it.

As for the numerous times I have seen him say that "many people have done work for CE at their quoted rate", I don't doubt this for a moment. However, what he really means is that once there was less than 1hr to collection time and he hadn't had a quote low enough, he then just took whatever the lowest quote received was.

The end result is (and this if for all the newbies out there!),

Don't be tricked into offering low prices as a means of "getting your foot in the door" or "generating repeat business", it's a false promise.

Yes, you will get return business, but Courier Companies who operate like this will only keep giving you work whilst you are willing to run around for peanuts. The moment you try and raise the price, they move on to the next cheapest newbie.

Don't be tricked into offering low prices on the basis of possible co/back loads. Extra loads and back loads are a rare exception rather than the norm. On 99% of the jobs that a same day courier does, it is quite simply pick up X at address A and deliver to address B.

(A little caveat to the above is that co loads are frowned upon as they will almost always cause you to be delayed for BOTH deliveries.)

The end result is, make sure that any job you do recompenses you adequately for the round trip and the time and effort it takes so that you never return home wishing you had never turned the key in the first place.

It is the following comment which I have cut and pasted from one of CE's posts which to me beggars belief and defies any logic or defense.

Quote: I am only putting forward an opinion, not stating any known facts, but I do believe these drivers are bidding low for future jobs, in the hope of getting the first one in the bag, then building other jobs around it by bidding even more aggressively, knowing they have covered at least the fuel on the first delivery. Yes, it leaves a lot to chance and yes, it might mean doing the occasional job for no profit, but if you make a profit on the rest of them, it might just work.

Certainly many businesses work on the above principle, of making a profit on some tasks, breaking even on others, and making a slight loss on a few. Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, but as long as we make a margin on most of them, when we add the overall figures up at the end of the month, it more or less works out :) End Quote.

If you as a courier driver ever "finish a job having only covered your fuel or worse still, making a small loss as CE suggests, then you should most definitely consider a career change.

The courier driver should never only break even and most definitely should NEVER make a loss.

It is companies with ideology such as this which financially rapes the uninformed newbie and keeps this industry flooded with rusting, improperly insured sheds on wheels.

No courier company worth it's salt would ever expect a subbie to take a loss!

So newbies, beware of courier companies who spout crap like this and get out and look for those that pay proper rates, there are plenty of them out there in all of the industrial estates all around your area. Stay away from the big organisations (they are all about price), look for the smaller independant companies who understand the industry and value the service that a good courier offers.

What a fantastic reply Scott. You are a man after my own heart. I know full well the post you quoted and that particular run is just the tip of the iceberg imo. As I have stated in previous replies on this particular thread, I have absolutely no interest in how much a company or other person makes whatsoever, however, I am bothered if it starts to effect the rates I can charge. I also know that I have the option to either quote/bid or offer to do the job and once it gets below my viable level then I throw the quote bid offer out of the window and look elsewhere. As you say there are other companies out there that are prepared to pay a decent rate and understand that we ALL need to make a profit. I also share your views that some prices are manipulated to produce a higher profit margin etc

MK BIKES said:

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Courier Expert said:

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I think one of the reasons a car is cheaper to run, is because you can combine it with work and your private life, one vehicle covers both. Whereas a van, is an additional cost on top of running your car.

Regarding your situation, if you already have a van, then of course quote on car work. Just bear in mind the going rate is a bit lower, whichever type of vehicle you use,

So how does that explain why bikers "generally want more" when a bike can have a dual use?

Firstly, I don't think a bike is as versatile or as 'dual purpose' as an estate car or people carrier.

Secondly, we have a far greater supply of cars, much easier to source, therefore cheaper.

I think you already knew this answer :)

Andy

Stephen Wild said:

---

A quick example.. a job came up on Thursday 17/04 as a sameday for Tuesday 22/4.. pre-book, so sounded nice and I applied.

CRV5109395UCT7633 L16 3GE to G84 8HL - 260 miles 283.40 ex VAT ... so 141.70 to the courier @ circa 54.5p plm. (not even near the 60p plm quoted by Andy)

I had not heard about the job so checked the website earlier today.. status was now "booked" and the rate was now 226.00 ish ex VAT so now down to a backload rate at 43.5 plm. I knew I wasn't getting the job (not that I would have done it at that rate) so applied for a few more. I got a rejection email/notification at about 18:00 tonight.

The job is still on mtvan with quotes from a number of members... I don't mind the lack of work but phantom (POTENTIAL) jobs and a total lack of response ... I work real time so it does not work for me!!

This job was indeed initially quoted at £283.40, however anyone who knows our system will know we make no secret of the fact we offer customers discounts for booking ahead, in the case we gave the customer 20% off for giving more than 2 days notice, therefore it was booked at £226. It was put out to mtvan for extra quotes but in the end, we got someone from our own network who put themselves forward for the job, therefore it was booked and allocated to a CE courier.

If it is still on mtvan, then as i have already acknowledged, the controllers haven't been giving enough priority to keeping the mtvan website up to date. We are all human here :)

Andy

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

---

Using cars is dragging the industry down not up!

Budget airlines suffered fierce criticism from their competitors for stripping away unnecessary extras like inflight meals, baggage that business travelers don't often carry and other things customers didn't really need. Same principle applies here, you don't need to transport an envelope or lever arch file 100 miles in an empty van!

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Andy

Lol, what a flimsy excuse.

When did the legal requirement for proper insurance cover become an unnecessary extra?

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Scott Reid said:

---

It should also be pointed out that a small van is actually a few pence per mile more expensive to run than a small van.

We only charge the customer a car rate that is a few pence per mile less than a van, and couriers get paid only a few pence less per mile. There is not a huge difference, but the customer will usually take the cheaper option, if that's all they need. I prefer to let the customer choose, as i mentioned earlier, it's about giving customers the options and letting them choose what they want.

Andy

Scott Reid said:

---

It is the following comment which I have cut and pasted from one of CE's posts which to me beggars belief and defies any logic or defense.

Quote: *I am only putting forward an opinion, not stating any known facts, but I do believe these drivers are bidding low for future jobs, in the hope of getting the first one in the bag, then building other jobs around it by bidding even more aggressively, knowing they have covered at least the fuel on the first delivery. Yes, it leaves a lot to chance and yes, it might mean doing the occasional job for no profit, but if you make a profit on the rest of them, it might just work.

Certainly many businesses work on the above principle, of making a profit on some tasks, breaking even on others, and making a slight loss on a few. Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, but as long as we make a margin on most of them, when we add the overall figures up at the end of the month, it more or less works out :)* End Quote.

If you as a courier driver ever "finish a job having only covered your fuel or worse still, making a small loss as CE suggests, then you should most definitely consider a career change.

The courier driver should never only break even and most definitely should NEVER make a loss.

It is companies with ideology such as this which financially rapes the uninformed newbie and keeps this industry flooded with rusting, improperly insured sheds on wheels.

No courier company worth it's salt would ever expect a subbie to take a loss!

So newbies, beware of courier companies who spout crap like this and get out and look for those that pay proper rates, there are plenty of them out there in all of the industrial estates all around your area. Stay away from the big organisations (they are all about price), look for the smaller independant companies who understand the industry and value the service that a good courier offers.

I am just saying, don't get hung up on how much or little you make on any one single job, some jobs will always make more, some less. What is most important, is when you add your figures up at the end of the month, how much you have made overall.

It matters not if you are a small 1 man business or a huge corporate, the same business principles apply if you want to make your venture a success - look at the big picture, play the long game.

Andy

PHAX said:

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Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, HOW. Just 99.9999999% Sameday jobs jump to Economy jobs in a matter of minutes, we dont know the customer does get the reduced price. We are told they are happy with economy rather than sameday on cost alone. And 90% of jobs are cars. Forgive me if my facts are not 100% factual.

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. We do not get involved in the bidding process at all.

Andy

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

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Using cars is dragging the industry down not up!

Budget airlines suffered fierce criticism from their competitors for stripping away unnecessary extras like inflight meals, baggage that business travelers don't often carry and other things customers didn't really need. Same principle applies here, you don't need to transport an envelope or lever arch file 100 miles in an empty van!

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Andy

And if Michael O'Leary is what you aspire to then that just about sums you up in a nutshell... lol

Ryanair currently has a team of more than 9,000 highly skilled professionals, will carry over 81.5 million passengers this year and has an outstanding 29-year safety record.


They must be doing something right :)

Andy

Stephen Wild said:

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Front page quote.. "With 3000 of our own Couriers across every town and city, Courier Expert are simply the UK’s Largest, Same Day Courier Network" ... in your dreams!!

Ok, so why if they have so much coverage do they even need to post on mtvan?

If you know of any other sameday network with more than 3000 couriers, then please let me know. I'll be gratefull for the information :)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

Ryanair currently has a team of more than 9,000 highly skilled professionals, will carry over 81.5 million passengers this year and has an outstanding 29-year safety record.


They must be doing something right :)

Andy

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/you-thought-ryanairs-attendants-had-it-bad-wait-til-you-hear-about-their-pilots-8621681.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2395642/Ryanair-sacks-pilot-spoke-TV-documentary-safety-fears-gross-misconduct.html

https://www.eurocockpit.be/stories/20140417/mayday-mayday-wins-over-ryanair-defamation-allegations

https://www.facebook.com/ryanairpilotgroup2013

http://ulir.ul.ie/handle/10344/385

https://www.eurocockpit.be/stories/20131104/ryanair-pilots-seek-improved-employment-conditions

I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about ryanair, and I have no doubt any large business is going to have negative press, particularly a company a controversial as this one, Micheal O'Leary has certainly upset many people with his cavalier attitude. However, my point was simply that the likes of ryanair and easyjet were pioneers in re-inventing the airline industry (in the face of fierce criticism from established competitors), but since then most of the industry has followed suit with a low cost business model. No one can argue the 'no frills' business model has been a success.

Andy

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. I know this, I stated a Sameday job is very quickly turned into an Economy job. These debates get long and pointless so I will remain stum on future entries.

Courier Expert said: No one can argue the 'no frills' business model has been a success.

Andy

It has neither been a success for flight crew nor for couriers. This is not a debate about about Ryanair, it is a debate about your company. As can be seen from the posts in this thread, the hard working members on this site have a very similar opinion about your company, as the staff at Ryanair do about their company. The fact that you admire Michael O'leary speaks volumes. Both your's and his companies rely on borderline exploitation.

If you call being #1 in the top 10 WORST airlines in the World, then a success it surely is. In a popularity contest it is clear why you make the comparison

ooer

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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If you call being #1 in the top 10 WORST airlines in the World, then a success it surely is. In a popularity contest it is clear why you make the comparison

ooer

Yet so many people continue to fly ryanair, easyjet etc. I wonder why?

Is it because you only have to pay for what you need? This was my original point.

Andy

PHAX said:

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Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. I know this, I stated a Sameday job is very quickly turned into an Economy job. These debates get long and pointless so I will remain stum on future entries.

Again, it's the customer's choice. We don't make them do anything, just present the options to them.

Andy

Nightrider said:

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Courier Expert said: No one can argue the 'no frills' business model has been a success.

Andy

It has neither been a success for flight crew nor for couriers. This is not a debate about about Ryanair, it is a debate about your company. As can be seen from the posts in this thread, the hard working members on this site have a very similar opinion about your company, as the staff at Ryanair do about their company. The fact that you admire Michael O'leary speaks volumes. Both your's and his companies rely on borderline exploitation.

But it has been a success for the customer's, something that rarely seems to be considered on this forum. When were we ever able to fly to europe for £30 before easyjet/ryanair came along?

The world has changed, including things in the courier world too. You either need to move with it or be prepared to lose out.

Andy

It opened up travel for an awful lot of people who couldn't afford to, it enabled those that could, to travel more than they did before.

But both Ryanair and Easyjet continue to get by far and away the worst reviews from customers AND their staff are some of the worst paid in the industry. They survive by bullying and threatening the Airports they operate from, have been accused of bribery to get into airports abroad which in many cases are miles from where they proport to be near to.

If you want to liken what you are doing to the likes of them, then you are both deluded and as arrogant as they are.

The customer is THE most important part of what we do, as are the COURIERS who do the job for us.

There really is no need to have to decide on which is more important. You can appeal to both without having to resort to the measures you seem to think are what our industry needs.

Getting the job done with no fuss, with a happy customer AND a happy Courier should be what we're all about.

It is also worth pointing out that your prices are no cheaper than anyone elses (sameday urgent) so the comparison to budget airlines has no grounds. The fact is your "cut" is much higher than most other Courier Companies at around 50% of your charge, as opposed to 25-40% of the industry norm. If anything that suggests your overheads are too high. You yourself said your business model couldn't work if you based it on rates many of us can and do pay. That is fundamentally a much bigger problem than even your ego

I think its time to be honest, and stop avoiding what many of us have been saying for a long time. You encourage new people into the industry by being economical with the truth. You know full well that they will not have the correct insurance for carrying goods if they are using their car, and your inhouse GIT cover is a blatant "swerveball" as i very much doubt you ever ask the value of the goods you are being asked to carry.

You use people, care diddly squat about what, if any, insurance they have, and pay them a %age that is both derisory and insulting.

THAT is the truth behind the success of Courier Expert. Is has nothing to do with "giving the customer what they want" but more to do with "how long can i get away with it".

You and people like you take advantage of others, and think its alright to do so.

Well it isn't

Courier Expert said:

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Nightrider said:

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Courier Expert said: No one can argue the 'no frills' business model has been a success.

Andy

It has neither been a success for flight crew nor for couriers. This is not a debate about about Ryanair, it is a debate about your company. As can be seen from the posts in this thread, the hard working members on this site have a very similar opinion about your company, as the staff at Ryanair do about their company. The fact that you admire Michael O'leary speaks volumes. Both your's and his companies rely on borderline exploitation.

But it has been a success for the customer's, something that rarely seems to be considered on this forum. When were we ever able to fly to europe for £30 before easyjet/ryanair came along?

The world has changed, including things in the courier world too. You either need to move with it or be prepared to lose out.

Andy

So we are suppossed to be happy working for peanuts because the customer is happy? Customer satisfaction does not put bread and butter on the table. Your rates are 20% less than what was barely acceptable 10 years ago. You know full well that your system works out cheaper than minimum wage. I was amazed the first time I looked at your website, and reading posts on this site backed up my original opinion.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think its time to be honest, and stop avoiding what many of us have been saying for a long time. You encourage new people into the industry by being economical with the truth. You know full well that they will not have the correct insurance for carrying goods if they are using their car, and your inhouse GIT cover is a blatant "swerveball" as i very much doubt you ever ask the value of the goods you are being asked to carry.

You use people, care diddly squat about what, if any, insurance they have, and pay them a %age that is both derisory and insulting.

THAT is the truth behind the success of Courier Expert. Is has nothing to do with "giving the customer what they want" but more to do with "how long can i get away with it".

You and people like you take advantage of others, and think its alright to do so.

Well it isn't

Well said Mr Speed, unfortunately this seems to be becoming the normal rather than the exception. People having to pay for the privilidge of earning less than minimum wage makes me sick.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think its time to be honest, and stop avoiding what many of us have been saying for a long time. You encourage new people into the industry by being economical with the truth. You know full well that they will not have the correct insurance for carrying goods if they are using their car, and your inhouse GIT cover is a blatant "swerveball" as i very much doubt you ever ask the value of the goods you are being asked to carry.

You use people, care diddly squat about what, if any, insurance they have, and pay them a %age that is both derisory and insulting.

THAT is the truth behind the success of Courier Expert. Is has nothing to do with "giving the customer what they want" but more to do with "how long can i get away with it".

You and people like you take advantage of others, and think its alright to do so.

Well it isn't

With some being so ill informed to believe that the GIT offered actually covers them for driving the vehicle!

Unbelievable but true

Courier Expert said:

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Stephen Wild said:

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Front page quote.. "With 3000 of our own Couriers across every town and city, Courier Expert are simply the UK’s Largest, Same Day Courier Network" ... in your dreams!!

Ok, so why if they have so much coverage do they even need to post on mtvan?

If you know of any other sameday network with more than 3000 couriers, then please let me know. I'll be gratefull for the information :)

Andy

You miss the point... If you have 3000 couriers what are you doing subbing on here was the point! Especially as you have a courier who had already said they were available!

I reckon CitySprint are close to your alleged 3000 :)

Courier Expert said:

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Stephen Wild said:

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A quick example.. a job came up on Thursday 17/04 as a sameday for Tuesday 22/4.. pre-book, so sounded nice and I applied.

CRV5109395UCT7633 L16 3GE to G84 8HL - 260 miles 283.40 ex VAT ... so 141.70 to the courier @ circa 54.5p plm. (not even near the 60p plm quoted by Andy)

I had not heard about the job so checked the website earlier today.. status was now "booked" and the rate was now 226.00 ish ex VAT so now down to a backload rate at 43.5 plm. I knew I wasn't getting the job (not that I would have done it at that rate) so applied for a few more. I got a rejection email/notification at about 18:00 tonight.

The job is still on mtvan with quotes from a number of members... I don't mind the lack of work but phantom (POTENTIAL) jobs and a total lack of response ... I work real time so it does not work for me!!

This job was indeed initially quoted at £283.40, however anyone who knows our system will know we make no secret of the fact we offer customers discounts for booking ahead, in the case we gave the customer 20% off for giving more than 2 days notice, therefore it was booked at £226. It was put out to mtvan for extra quotes but in the end, we got someone from our own network who put themselves forward for the job, therefore it was booked and allocated to a CE courier.

If it is still on mtvan, then as i have already acknowledged, the controllers haven't been giving enough priority to keeping the mtvan website up to date. We are all human here :)

Andy

Sorry mate but thats just a load of crap... "anyone who knows our system?" sorry I signed up on the basis you said originally never saw any mention of a 20% discount.. And if you had an offer why put it on mtvan? Big load of scam, I reckon you are pushing the boundaries of fair trading here.. Well I have a couple weeks of my £4 plus vat... But I cancelled it so sue me!

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

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Using cars is dragging the industry down not up!

Budget airlines suffered fierce criticism from their competitors for stripping away unnecessary extras like inflight meals, baggage that business travelers don't often carry and other things customers didn't really need. Same principle applies here, you don't need to transport an envelope or lever arch file 100 miles in an empty van!

I am surprised the concept of supplying customers only what they need - rather than what you want to supply - is taking so song to catch on in this industry :)

Andy

Lol, what a flimsy excuse.

When did the legal requirement for proper insurance cover become an unnecessary extra?

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

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Courier Expert said:

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I think one of the reasons a car is cheaper to run, is because you can combine it with work and your private life, one vehicle covers both. Whereas a van, is an additional cost on top of running your car.

Regarding your situation, if you already have a van, then of course quote on car work. Just bear in mind the going rate is a bit lower, whichever type of vehicle you use,

So how does that explain why bikers "generally want more" when a bike can have a dual use?

Firstly, I don't think a bike is as versatile or as 'dual purpose' as an estate car or people carrier.

Secondly, we have a far greater supply of cars, much easier to source, therefore cheaper.

I think you already knew this answer :)

Andy

Of course you have a greater supply of cars, which are obviously cheaper and easier to source. Especially since you are courting and encouraging the lifestyle courier with no Hire and Reward insurance.

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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It should also be pointed out that a small van is actually a few pence per mile more expensive to run than a small van.

We only charge the customer a car rate that is a few pence per mile less than a van, and couriers get paid only a few pence less per mile. There is not a huge difference, but the customer will usually take the cheaper option, if that's all they need. I prefer to let the customer choose, as i mentioned earlier, it's about giving customers the options and letting them choose what they want.

Andy

You should be charging them more. Petrol vehicles, which make up the bulk percentage of cars are actually more per mile to operate than a small diesel van.

So according to your economics, I would be EVEN WORSE OFF working for you if I have a petrol car.

Courier Expert said:

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Stephen Wild said:

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A quick example.. a job came up on Thursday 17/04 as a sameday for Tuesday 22/4.. pre-book, so sounded nice and I applied.

CRV5109395UCT7633 L16 3GE to G84 8HL - 260 miles 283.40 ex VAT ... so 141.70 to the courier @ circa 54.5p plm. (not even near the 60p plm quoted by Andy)

I had not heard about the job so checked the website earlier today.. status was now "booked" and the rate was now 226.00 ish ex VAT so now down to a backload rate at 43.5 plm. I knew I wasn't getting the job (not that I would have done it at that rate) so applied for a few more. I got a rejection email/notification at about 18:00 tonight.

The job is still on mtvan with quotes from a number of members... I don't mind the lack of work but phantom (POTENTIAL) jobs and a total lack of response ... I work real time so it does not work for me!!

This job was indeed initially quoted at £283.40, however anyone who knows our system will know we make no secret of the fact we offer customers discounts for booking ahead, in the case we gave the customer 20% off for giving more than 2 days notice, therefore it was booked at £226. It was put out to mtvan for extra quotes but in the end, we got someone from our own network who put themselves forward for the job, therefore it was booked and allocated to a CE courier.

If it is still on mtvan, then as i have already acknowledged, the controllers haven't been giving enough priority to keeping the mtvan website up to date. We are all human here :)

Andy

How can you offer your customer a discount before you actually know what price you can get it covered for?

Not possible.

So once again it's a case of hold the job till the last minute in the hope that some donkey quotes low enough because to him it's a backload, or perhaps he can be convinced that he'll pick up a co or back load! Then once it's one hour from deadline just run through the quotes you had in the last 15 mins, hoping that one of them is still available.

It's this kind of practice that devalues the courier both in estimation and price.

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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It is the following comment which I have cut and pasted from one of CE's posts which to me beggars belief and defies any logic or defense.

Quote: *I am only putting forward an opinion, not stating any known facts, but I do believe these drivers are bidding low for future jobs, in the hope of getting the first one in the bag, then building other jobs around it by bidding even more aggressively, knowing they have covered at least the fuel on the first delivery. Yes, it leaves a lot to chance and yes, it might mean doing the occasional job for no profit, but if you make a profit on the rest of them, it might just work.

Certainly many businesses work on the above principle, of making a profit on some tasks, breaking even on others, and making a slight loss on a few. Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, but as long as we make a margin on most of them, when we add the overall figures up at the end of the month, it more or less works out :)* End Quote.

If you as a courier driver ever "finish a job having only covered your fuel or worse still, making a small loss as CE suggests, then you should most definitely consider a career change.

The courier driver should never only break even and most definitely should NEVER make a loss.

It is companies with ideology such as this which financially rapes the uninformed newbie and keeps this industry flooded with rusting, improperly insured sheds on wheels.

No courier company worth it's salt would ever expect a subbie to take a loss!

So newbies, beware of courier companies who spout crap like this and get out and look for those that pay proper rates, there are plenty of them out there in all of the industrial estates all around your area. Stay away from the big organisations (they are all about price), look for the smaller independant companies who understand the industry and value the service that a good courier offers.

I am just saying, don't get hung up on how much or little you make on any one single job, some jobs will always make more, some less. What is most important, is when you add your figures up at the end of the month, how much you have made overall.

It matters not if you are a small 1 man business or a huge corporate, the same business principles apply if you want to make your venture a success - look at the big picture, play the long game.

Andy

Utter tosh and piffle!

You as the courier company are the one who is expected to soak up a loss if you can't cover a job at the price you quote to your customer.

The courier who actually does the job should A:Never lose money on a job and B:Should never return home with a profit that does not cover his costs, time and also produce a viable profit.

Without the courier, you have no business.

Courier Expert said:

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I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about ryanair, and I have no doubt any large business is going to have negative press, particularly a company a controversial as this one, Micheal O'Leary has certainly upset many people with his cavalier attitude. However, my point was simply that the likes of ryanair and easyjet were pioneers in re-inventing the airline industry (in the face of fierce criticism from established competitors), but since then most of the industry has followed suit with a low cost business model. No one can argue the 'no frills' business model has been a success.

Andy

It's not a debate about Ryanair, it's a debate about your business practices!

Courier Expert said:

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PHAX said:

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Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, HOW. Just 99.9999999% Sameday jobs jump to Economy jobs in a matter of minutes, we dont know the customer does get the reduced price. We are told they are happy with economy rather than sameday on cost alone. And 90% of jobs are cars. Forgive me if my facts are not 100% factual.

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. We do not get involved in the bidding process at all.

Andy

So now you let the courier discuss price directly with your customer?

Nightrider said:

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Courier Expert said: No one can argue the 'no frills' business model has been a success.

Andy

It has neither been a success for flight crew nor for couriers. This is not a debate about about Ryanair, it is a debate about your company. As can be seen from the posts in this thread, the hard working members on this site have a very similar opinion about your company, as the staff at Ryanair do about their company. The fact that you admire Michael O'leary speaks volumes. Both your's and his companies rely on borderline exploitation.

Hear, hear Nightrider.

The fact that his own customer is not happy with the drivers he is sourcing is even more telling.

Courier Expert said:

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Nightrider said:

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Courier Expert said: No one can argue the 'no frills' business model has been a success.

Andy

It has neither been a success for flight crew nor for couriers. This is not a debate about about Ryanair, it is a debate about your company. As can be seen from the posts in this thread, the hard working members on this site have a very similar opinion about your company, as the staff at Ryanair do about their company. The fact that you admire Michael O'leary speaks volumes. Both your's and his companies rely on borderline exploitation.

But it has been a success for the customer's, something that rarely seems to be considered on this forum. When were we ever able to fly to europe for £30 before easyjet/ryanair came along?

The world has changed, including things in the courier world too. You either need to move with it or be prepared to lose out.

Andy

Have you seen the video on you tube, "There's no such thing as flights for feckin 50p"?

So what you're saying is that you are getting business in by quoting WAY lower than anyone else, RIDICULOUSLY lower, but making you're money up on hidden extras?

That's their business model.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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It is also worth pointing out that your prices are no cheaper than anyone elses (sameday urgent) so the comparison to budget airlines has no grounds. The fact is your "cut" is much higher than most other Courier Companies at around 50% of your charge, as opposed to 25-40% of the industry norm. If anything that suggests your overheads are too high. You yourself said your business model couldn't work if you based it on rates many of us can and do pay. That is fundamentally a much bigger problem than even your ego

Well said Rob.

If any subbie on here thinks for a minute that CE is operating on low margins, they are just falling for the next marketing spiel crap line.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think its time to be honest, and stop avoiding what many of us have been saying for a long time. You encourage new people into the industry by being economical with the truth. You know full well that they will not have the correct insurance for carrying goods if they are using their car, and your inhouse GIT cover is a blatant "swerveball" as i very much doubt you ever ask the value of the goods you are being asked to carry.

You use people, care diddly squat about what, if any, insurance they have, and pay them a %age that is both derisory and insulting.

THAT is the truth behind the success of Courier Expert. Is has nothing to do with "giving the customer what they want" but more to do with "how long can i get away with it".

You and people like you take advantage of others, and think its alright to do so.

Well it isn't

+1

Andy, what you do isn't illegal. But don't insult the intelligence of those of us on here who also know the industry.

I have only worked as a courier for 3 years now, but I have had meetings with some of the big boys where they have said to me, "The rate we pay is.."

I stop them right there and remind them that I am self employed and as such if they wish to use my services then the rate is X. No negotiation.

But this thing about the GIT being covered by your company, that is laughable.

GIT is the insurance that is good to have, not need to have. Although any courier worth his salt will have it.

It's "Carriage of Goods for Hire and Reward" which is a LEGAL requirement.

Use a courier that doesn't have it and your customers goods can be impounded.

Scott Reid said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think its time to be honest, and stop avoiding what many of us have been saying for a long time. You encourage new people into the industry by being economical with the truth. You know full well that they will not have the correct insurance for carrying goods if they are using their car, and your inhouse GIT cover is a blatant "swerveball" as i very much doubt you ever ask the value of the goods you are being asked to carry.

You use people, care diddly squat about what, if any, insurance they have, and pay them a %age that is both derisory and insulting.

THAT is the truth behind the success of Courier Expert. Is has nothing to do with "giving the customer what they want" but more to do with "how long can i get away with it".

You and people like you take advantage of others, and think its alright to do so.

Well it isn't

+1

Andy, what you do isn't illegal. But don't insult the intelligence of those of us on here who also know the industry.

I have only worked as a courier for 3 years now, but I have had meetings with some of the big boys where they have said to me, "The rate we pay is.."

I stop them right there and remind them that I am self employed and as such if they wish to use my services then the rate is X. No negotiation.

But this thing about the GIT being covered by your company, that is laughable.

GIT is the insurance that is good to have, not need to have. Although any courier worth his salt will have it.

It's "Carriage of Goods for Hire and Reward" which is a LEGAL requirement.

Use a courier that doesn't have it and your customers goods can be impounded.

In addition, if the couriers you are hiring can't afford their own GIT which is the cheapest of all the insurances which we need how in the hell can they possibly afford Hire and Reward insurance.

I'm sorry Andy, but nothing you say stacks up.

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Cars?

I know couriers who drive around in estate cars. Purely because they can no longer afford the luxury of having a van for work and a car when not working. Who fancies driving their family around in a van?

I suggest the addition of a car when posting work is for a different reason. Its nothing to do with the customer asking for a car, its because some are offering cars as a cheaper alternative to a van.Thereby making it an option the customer never used to have. An alternative that didn't exist until some bright spark realised they could entice more people into the industry without the expense of buying a van... And insuring it as a courier. Those same people who don't realise they need courier insurance, or just don't care.

I have NEVER been asked for a car, and I have never offered work for a car.

If it isn't to entice car drivers without the relevant insurance then please explain why they are offered as a cheaper alternative to a van? How are the running costs cheaper?

You all know the answer to that one

If a customer wants us to transport an envelope or lever arch file, we recommended a car. It's not rocket science, just charge the customer the minimum needed to get the job done. If I ordered a taxi for 1 person, i would not expect a people carrier - nor to be charged for one :)

Andy

Courier Expert. if you ordered a taxi to take you somewhere, Would you expect the driver to carry you up six flights of stairs and deliver you?

When I worked in London years ago in a small van every other job was for a motorbike. Customers soon realised when they booked a bike that 9 out of 10 times they got a small van. So they abused it. On the odd occasion they got one, the bike rider usually ended up refusing to take the package due to it being 6 boxes.

The reason people are in this business with cars is because they don't do a business plan, they don't have the necessary funds to buy a van, the credit score to lease one, or it's a convenient short term solution.

The other thing that pisses me off big time is when I meet owner drivers' who say they own their van outright so apart from servicing and fuel all the profit they make is theirs. So, it's assumed that these guys are setting aside £10 - £20 thousand to buy another van when their outright purchase claps out.

Minimum wage = £6.30 x 37.5 hours x 52 weeks (including 4 weeks holiday and 5 days public holiday) = £12,285

52 weeks - 4 weeks holiday - 5 days public holiday = 47 weeks @ 5 days a week = 235 days

Courier expert @ £0.55 plm. Running cost £0.20 pm = £0.40 plm without backload.

£12,285 / 235 = £52.28 per day / £0.15 = 348 loaded miles per day average at an average speed of 46 mph

Does not include running empty miles or loading time.

Andy, why is it I was the only bid for a run Reference=CRV5106976SJD3395, for 11/04 last but didnt get the job? Am I right in thinking this same job was then posted on courier exchange? I thought the rate I put in for the job was more than reasonable. As other people have said recently in this thread if you dont keep the couriers happy then pretty soon you wont have any to do the work for you. If your fair with people 9 times out of 10 they will be more than fair back. However, I suppose if you always want to pay peanuts then there will always be a supply of monkeys- until that one fateful day when that monkey has a crash or something-- bit like the walls of Jerichoe

This has been an interesting thread to follow, and for what it's worth, and IMO the easiest solution is to stay clear of the Ryan Air/Easy Jet crowd and let the monkeys eat the peanuts.
Eventually (probably not in my lifetime) the customer will revert to getting 'proper' couriers, to do a 'proper' job at 'proper' rates!

Nightrider said:

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Minimum wage = £6.30 x 37.5 hours x 52 weeks (including 4 weeks holiday and 5 days public holiday) = £12,285

52 weeks - 4 weeks holiday - 5 days public holiday = 47 weeks @ 5 days a week = 235 days

Courier expert @ £0.55 plm. Running cost £0.20 pm = £0.40 plm without backload.

£12,285 / 235 = £52.28 per day / £0.15 = 348 loaded miles per day average at an average speed of 46 mph

Does not include running empty miles or loading time.

I made a schoolboy error with my calculations. You would of course have to maintain an average of 92mph for 7.5 hours to achieve minimum wage.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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It is also worth pointing out that your prices are no cheaper than anyone elses (sameday urgent) so the comparison to budget airlines has no grounds. The fact is your "cut" is much higher than most other Courier Companies at around 50% of your charge, as opposed to 25-40% of the industry norm. If anything that suggests your overheads are too high. You yourself said your business model couldn't work if you based it on rates many of us can and do pay. That is fundamentally a much bigger problem than even your ego

If we made 50% on every job, that would be great. However, our margins are closer to the industry norm that you suggest as our regular subbies (trusted suppliers) get paid more. Also, our economy margin is 5%, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread, which takes the average margin down even further.

By the way, I never said we were the cheapest. But we do only charge customers just for what they need, rather than what we want to supply.

Andy

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Your inhouse GIT cover is a blatant "swerveball" as i very much doubt you ever ask the value of the goods you are being asked to carry.

Incorrect assumpiton - Every customer is asked the value of the goods, the quote form cannot be submitted without the answer to this question. A job is classed as Level 1 - Level 2 accordingly, this also dictates which couriers will receive the job alert.

It really would be better for you to check facts first, before making any blind assumptions.

Andy

Nightrider said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Well said Mr Speed, unfortunately this seems to be becoming the normal rather than the exception. People having to pay for the privilidge of earning less than minimum wage makes me sick.

We have a free membership option :)

Andy

we gave the customer 20% off for giving more than 2 days notice

Shit what do you give for 7 days notice, no wounder you dont employ your drivers

Scott Reid said:

So what you're saying is that you are getting business in by quoting WAY lower than anyone else, RIDICULOUSLY lower, but making you're money up on hidden extras?

That's their business model.

No, we are just charging customers according to what they want and no more :)

Andy

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

Nightrider said:

Courier expert @ £0.55 plm. Running cost £0.20 pm = £0.40 plm without backload.

Most couriers earn more than 55 pplm with Courier Expert, that is just the starting rate for the first few jobs before becoming a trusted supplier.

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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Nightrider said:

Courier expert @ £0.55 plm. Running cost £0.20 pm = £0.40 plm without backload.

Most couriers earn more than 55 pplm with Courier Expert, that is just the starting rate for the first few jobs before becoming a trusted supplier.

Andy

In fact that is the car rate, small van rate for a trusted supplier is 66 pplm

Andy

GeeGee vans said:

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Andy, why is it I was the only bid for a run Reference=CRV5106976SJD3395, for 11/04 last but didnt get the job? Am I right in thinking this same job was then posted on courier exchange? I thought the rate I put in for the job was more than reasonable. As other people have said recently in this thread if you dont keep the couriers happy then pretty soon you wont have any to do the work for you. If your fair with people 9 times out of 10 they will be more than fair back. However, I suppose if you always want to pay peanuts then there will always be a supply of monkeys- until that one fateful day when that monkey has a crash or something-- bit like the walls of Jerichoe

I cannot find the job with that reference number, if you let me know the postcodes, then i'll have a search for the job that way and hopefully answer your question.

Andy

Rob summed it up...

You use people, care diddly squat about what, if any, insurance they have, and pay them a %age that is both derisory and insulting. THAT is the truth behind the success of Courier Expert. Is has nothing to do with "giving the customer what they want" but more to do with "how long can i get away with it". You and people like you take advantage of others, and think its alright to do so.

So can we now end this thread! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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PHAX said:

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Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, HOW. Just 99.9999999% Sameday jobs jump to Economy jobs in a matter of minutes, we dont know the customer does get the reduced price. We are told they are happy with economy rather than sameday on cost alone. And 90% of jobs are cars. Forgive me if my facts are not 100% factual.

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. We do not get involved in the bidding process at all.

Andy

So now you let the courier discuss price directly with your customer?

For economy jobs, yes. The couriers quote goes directly to the customer, with 5% margin on top.

Andy

Scott Reid said:

How can you offer your customer a discount before you actually know what price you can get it covered for?

Not possible.

So once again it's a case of hold the job till the last minute in the hope that some donkey quotes low enough because to him it's a backload, or perhaps he can be convinced that he'll pick up a co or back load! Then once it's one hour from deadline just run through the quotes you had in the last 15 mins, hoping that one of them is still available.

It's this kind of practice that devalues the courier both in estimation and price.

Of course it's possible, we do it :)

Andy

Stephen Wild said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Stephen Wild said:

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Front page quote.. "With 3000 of our own Couriers across every town and city, Courier Expert are simply the UK’s Largest, Same Day Courier Network" ... in your dreams!!

Ok, so why if they have so much coverage do they even need to post on mtvan?

If you know of any other sameday network with more than 3000 couriers, then please let me know. I'll be gratefull for the information :)

Andy

You miss the point... If you have 3000 couriers what are you doing subbing on here was the point! Especially as you have a courier who had already said they were available!

I reckon CitySprint are close to your alleged 3000 :)

Since we offered free memberships, our base has shot up to 3000 and it is not slowing down.

I don't think it matters how many couriers we have, non of them are exclusive to us, so there are always going to be occasions when no one is available, at the time we need someone and in the exact area we need them.

City Sprint may well be close, especially if they keep buying up other courier companies at the rate they have been going. Who knows, maybe they will make me an offer next :)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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City Sprint may well be close, especially if they keep buying up other courier companies at the rate they have been going. Who knows, maybe they will make me an offer next :)

Andy

What? And bring some ethics back into the field? At least they make efforts to ensure their subbies are properly insured for Hire and Reward, by demanding copies of the certificates.

PHAX said:

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So can we now end this thread! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Not yet - Andy hasn't yet finished cherry picking the odd sentences to answer (to turn the subject, rather than answer the proper points raised).

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Thanks for the replies, if they r only paying 60ppm I won't be doing any work for them, I can sit at home and earn nothing. Then my next question is, do the people willing to do the booking in a car for 54ppm have all the right insurances. I would never use a car for courier work, doesn't look good and I'm sure a lot of my fellow couriers would not use a car

I've given out plenty of work that would fit in a car, but I wouldn't dream of sending one to any of my customers. The first question I would get is, are they insured correctly. I've know that there is plenty of so called couriers that do use cars and when they get pulled over by mr police man, the insurance only covers them for personal use. Cars for me is a big NO NO. It does my head in, because people that are legit lose out because of these amatuers

I use a car for courier work but only for urgent need it now jobs. Its insured, i keep it clean its 2014 plate skoda octavia diesel. But like i say, its only used for urgent jobs with the one or 2 parcels from same collection to the same delivery addresses. We mainly use vans for multi-drops and some urgent jobs if i have a van available. We use mercedes sprinter xlwb vans and a luton. We just got rid of our vito as it is now old but looking to replace maybe with the vw transporter.

My car is ideal for small parcels and the biggest i carry in the car if boxed is about the size of a crisp box. Obviously i carry my documents for insurance where ever possible, and they are available upon reasonable request. Durham Constabulary pay me 68p per loaded mile in my car to collect urgent car parts to computers and software. I also collect and distribute their internal post in a van in the north and east durham areas to the police stations and courts. In my old car a 2010 zafira i had a couple of jobs from my local hospital of medical supplies. Whenever there is a small parcel going from one end of the country to the other and urgent, then the car is great for b2b work. When it comes to delivering to customers, i use a sign written van.

Anyway, reason i logged onto the forum today. I heard that a local police force near to me or due to put out to tender a vehicle recovery contract. I am tempted into looking further into this as in my younger years i used to work for a garage driving a spec lift but as a PAYE. Is there anyone on here know anything about setting up as a recovery business, i do have a secure yard large enough as i no longer supply caravan storage. But looking into what insurances i would need and operating licenses and such and i heard that if it is for the transporter truck is used for the sole purpose of recovery then it wont need to be mot'd and tacho exempt. Any ideas

Steve

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Cars?

I know couriers who drive around in estate cars. Purely because they can no longer afford the luxury of having a van for work and a car when not working. Who fancies driving their family around in a van?

I suggest the addition of a car when posting work is for a different reason. Its nothing to do with the customer asking for a car, its because some are offering cars as a cheaper alternative to a van.Thereby making it an option the customer never used to have. An alternative that didn't exist until some bright spark realised they could entice more people into the industry without the expense of buying a van... And insuring it as a courier. Those same people who don't realise they need courier insurance, or just don't care.

I have NEVER been asked for a car, and I have never offered work for a car.

If it isn't to entice car drivers without the relevant insurance then please explain why they are offered as a cheaper alternative to a van? How are the running costs cheaper?

You all know the answer to that one

If a customer wants us to transport an envelope or lever arch file, we recommended a car. It's not rocket science, just charge the customer the minimum needed to get the job done. If I ordered a taxi for 1 person, i would not expect a people carrier - nor to be charged for one :)

Andy

I see your logic in there andy. But i think what the lads getting at, it is so easy to call yourself a courier when you have a car and not have the insurances. Such as with taxis, but with taxis it is plain and easy to see if a car is licenced and insured as a taxi due its plate and markings.

Steve

Steve Campbell Courier Services said: Anyway, reason i logged onto the forum today. I heard that a local police force near to me or due to put out to tender a vehicle recovery contract. I am tempted into looking further into this as in my younger years i used to work for a garage driving a spec lift but as a PAYE. Is there anyone on here know anything about setting up as a recovery business, i do have a secure yard large enough as i no longer supply caravan storage. But looking into what insurances i would need and operating licenses and such and i heard that if it is for the transporter truck is used for the sole purpose of recovery then it wont need to be mot'd and tacho exempt. Any ideas

Steve

You might want to start a new thread rather than ask in this one.

Within 100 km from base you are exempt from using a tacho. But if you go further then, well it gets complicated and you need to study the rules. A 3.5 tonne van can't carry more than a small car because of the weight, but if you have a trailer then you could carry a 4x4 behind. You will need an MOT, but not an operators license if it solely recovery. But any transportation does. Anyway, everything you need to know is right here

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210144/guide-for-recovery-operations.pdf

Courier Expert said:

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Stephen Wild said:

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Front page quote.. "With 3000 of our own Couriers across every town and city, Courier Expert are simply the UK’s Largest, Same Day Courier Network" ... in your dreams!!

Ok, so why if they have so much coverage do they even need to post on mtvan?

If you know of any other sameday network with more than 3000 couriers, then please let me know. I'll be gratefull for the information :)

Andy

He meant as i assume that you do not have 3000 of your own couriers as if you did then you wouldnt need to list them for others.

Steve Campbell Courier Services said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Stephen Wild said:

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Front page quote.. "With 3000 of our own Couriers across every town and city, Courier Expert are simply the UK’s Largest, Same Day Courier Network" ... in your dreams!!

Ok, so why if they have so much coverage do they even need to post on mtvan?

If you know of any other sameday network with more than 3000 couriers, then please let me know. I'll be gratefull for the information :)

Andy

He meant as i assume that you do not have 3000 of your own couriers as if you did then you wouldnt need to list them for others.

We have 3000 registered members in our network, as stated earlier, not exclusive to us, which is why we regularly use mtvan.

Andy

Dennis said:

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Courier Expert said:

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City Sprint may well be close, especially if they keep buying up other courier companies at the rate they have been going. Who knows, maybe they will make me an offer next :)

Andy

What? And bring some ethics back into the field? At least they make efforts to ensure their subbies are properly insured for Hire and Reward, by demanding copies of the certificates.

This has been considered before, however unfortunately we do not have the human resource to effectively check and maintain 3000 records. To do this, we would have to raise our membership fees or reduce our subbie rates closer to the levels paid by many of the other national courier companies (our competitors). The conclusion we arrived at, was that neither of these options would be popular with our members.

Despite some negativity occasionally on this forum (although it's almost nothing compared to a year ago) our offering to our members has been proving increasing popular.... HELLO!!! .... an increase of 500 to 3000 members in 12 months :) and the feedback from mtvan members who have done work for us, continues to be positive. View feedback here

Finally, while I am very pleased that Courier Expert continues to create such interest in this forum, unfortunately it isn't always going to be the easter weekend, therefore I will soon run out of time to participate in this forum, so let me leave you all with my final thoughts which are:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it :)

And I hope that mtvan couriers continue to support us, some will be surprised who some of the couriers are who are quietly doing work for us, but you know who you are ;)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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PHAX said:

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Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, HOW. Just 99.9999999% Sameday jobs jump to Economy jobs in a matter of minutes, we dont know the customer does get the reduced price. We are told they are happy with economy rather than sameday on cost alone. And 90% of jobs are cars. Forgive me if my facts are not 100% factual.

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. We do not get involved in the bidding process at all.

Andy

So now you let the courier discuss price directly with your customer?

For economy jobs, yes. The couriers quote goes directly to the customer, with 5% margin on top.

Andy

Thats not enough, you'd be working for nothing, £100 job + 5% = £5 youll need alot of £5 to pay all your staff + make some profit

SMH said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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PHAX said:

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Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, HOW. Just 99.9999999% Sameday jobs jump to Economy jobs in a matter of minutes, we dont know the customer does get the reduced price. We are told they are happy with economy rather than sameday on cost alone. And 90% of jobs are cars. Forgive me if my facts are not 100% factual.

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. We do not get involved in the bidding process at all.

Andy

So now you let the courier discuss price directly with your customer?

For economy jobs, yes. The couriers quote goes directly to the customer, with 5% margin on top.

Andy

Thats not enough, you'd be working for nothing, £100 job + 5% = £5 youll need alot of £5 to pay all your staff + make some profit

Agreed Simon, I think a lot of businesses are a lot more profitable than they make out. I have no interest in how much a business makes as long as I can get a fair deal for my services. I have had businesses myself over the years and have been self employed for the last 30+ years. The amount of times I have been told "oh we're done to the bone on the price for this job, but we had to cut the margins in order to get the job. " What they are really saying is were not going to make as much as we would have wanted to. Then they go on to say -if you dont want the job there are plenty out there that will do it for what we are offering. This works on so many levels. But that doesn't matter in this case because it wont matter a bit if the jobs exist or not. If you go back to a comment made by Scott Read early on in this thread about "phantom jobs" and consider this for a minute- if CE does have the 3000 members it claims to have and each one of those members pays a weekly subscription fee (we all know how much that is) multiply the fee by the numbers and then by 52 ( that will give you a very impressive number)! Take the operating costs etc out of that and it still leaves a tidy sum. Hats off to you for coming up with that idea. The actual courier jobs tend to fade into insignificance. I think City Sprint would need to take out a very large loan to buy you out.

I would however ask the question, why is it I bid for a job on CE which was due to run on the 16th of this month then receive n email on the 18th to tell me another bid had been received. How can you bid on a job that should have been picked up two days BEFORE the email on the 18th? How can I have been the only bidder on another job and not get the job?

Courier Expert said:

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Dennis said:

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Courier Expert said:

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City Sprint may well be close, especially if they keep buying up other courier companies at the rate they have been going. Who knows, maybe they will make me an offer next :)

Andy

What? And bring some ethics back into the field? At least they make efforts to ensure their subbies are properly insured for Hire and Reward, by demanding copies of the certificates.

This has been considered before, however unfortunately we do not have the human resource to effectively check and maintain 3000 records. To do this, we would have to raise our membership fees or reduce our subbie rates closer to the levels paid by many of the other national courier companies (our competitors). The conclusion we arrived at, was that neither of these options would be popular with our members.

Andy

What absolute rubbish! That sort of thing is childsplay to any pen-pusher - that's any office worker - that's any one of your office people. You're not checking and maintaining 3000 records every day. You are checking one record at a time as each new member registers and you say you had 500 new members in 12 months - 10 a week - 2 a day -WOW, what an effort to check, NOT! And what effort to maintain? Trivial - in these days of computer diaries, in these days of emails, these days of copy and paste. You say you'd have to increase membership fees or reduce payment rates to pay for the resources to check and maintain the records. Who do you think you're kidding, except yourself? Or is it just another attempt to turn or dismiss the subject? IF you had one member of your office staff devote full time to setting this up for all 3000 members, the first stage (notify them all that they "MUST provide the following documentation by the end of this month") could be done easily in a week. And I don't believe it is necessary, you could set a programme timescale of several weeks. Then maintaining the records would be a simple VERY PART TIME task for anybody. Really, you are just not interested enough, or caring enough, or professional enough to do it.

GeeGee vans said:

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if CE does have the 3000 members it claims to have and each one of those members pays a weekly subscription fee (we all know how much that is) multiply the fee by the numbers and then by 52 ( that will give you a very impressive number)! Take the operating costs etc out of that and it still leaves a tidy sum. Hats off to you for coming up with that idea. The actual courier jobs tend to fade into insignificance. I think City Sprint would need to take out a very large loan to buy you out.

Ooops, mistake! - you've now given him the diversion of saying that actually he has 2953 free members, so the fees are negligible. LOL

We haven't got the resources to check the drivers working for us is tosh.

The simple fact is many of the people you attract (not all) working in cars will be looking for an income boost, I'd guess many would probably have families (hence the people carriers, estate cars etc) now if for arguments sake you pay £300 a year SDP insurance are you really going to swop this, for H&R insurance of say £1,200 per year (don't forget they would need to put down at least 20% of this as a policy starter) to earn some extra money each week? Not to check insurances is nothing short of negligence

GeeGee vans said:

I would however ask the question, why is it I bid for a job on CE which was due to run on the 16th of this month then receive n email on the 18th to tell me another bid had been received. How can you bid on a job that should have been picked up two days BEFORE the email on the 18th? How can I have been the only bidder on another job and not get the job?

16th is the earliest collection date, not the actual collection date.

If you were the only bidder on another job and you didn't get it, then I would say the customer went elsewhere. They probably listed the job on another website too, Courier Expert is not the only place to advertise an economy delivery.

Andy

Dennis said:

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GeeGee vans said:

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if CE does have the 3000 members it claims to have and each one of those members pays a weekly subscription fee (we all know how much that is) multiply the fee by the numbers and then by 52 ( that will give you a very impressive number)! Take the operating costs etc out of that and it still leaves a tidy sum. Hats off to you for coming up with that idea. The actual courier jobs tend to fade into insignificance. I think City Sprint would need to take out a very large loan to buy you out.

Ooops, mistake! - you've now given him the diversion of saying that actually he has 2953 free members, so the fees are negligible. LOL

The vast majority of our members are free memberships. I don't think any city sprint offer would be enough to retire on, not yet anyway :)

Andy

Dennis said:

This has been considered before, however unfortunately we do not have the human resource to effectively check and maintain 3000 records. To do this, we would have to raise our membership fees or reduce our subbie rates closer to the levels paid by many of the other national courier companies (our competitors). The conclusion we arrived at, was that neither of these options would be popular with our members.

Andy

What absolute rubbish! That sort of thing is childsplay to any pen-pusher - that's any office worker - that's any one of your office people. You're not checking and maintaining 3000 records every day. You are checking one record at a time as each new member registers and you say you had 500 new members in 12 months - 10 a week - 2 a day -WOW, what an effort to check, NOT! And what effort to maintain? Trivial - in these days of computer diaries, in these days of emails, these days of copy and paste. You say you'd have to increase membership fees or reduce payment rates to pay for the resources to check and maintain the records. Who do you think you're kidding, except yourself? Or is it just another attempt to turn or dismiss the subject? IF you had one member of your office staff devote full time to setting this up for all 3000 members, the first stage (notify them all that they "MUST provide the following documentation by the end of this month") could be done easily in a week. And I don't believe it is necessary, you could set a programme timescale of several weeks. Then maintaining the records would be a simple VERY PART TIME task for anybody. Really, you are just not interested enough, or caring enough, or professional enough to do it.

The vast majority of memberships are actually free ones. Dennis, if you would like to come and work in my office for a few weeks, so i can demonstrate to you how time consuming free (or even paid) memberships are, then please feel free to do so. Just bear in mind, I can't pay you every 14 days ;)

Andy

This thread has proved beyond doubt this business needs to change if returns are ever going to keep pace with the minimum wage.

Too many naive people being constantly drawn in and exploited. Yes exploited. It's a business for Christ sake.

How many threads have you seen on the internet asking "I just bought a 10 year old rust bucket. What do I charge?" This can't be right.

For many years it's always been the easiest way into business. Buy a van and hope for the best.

So, what's the options. Join the 'Dispatch Association' what a bloody waste of 400 quid they are. Or start a new professional body to represent and protect the participants of this industry.

Even though it's 2014 it's not too late. It can be done. Just takes vision and courage.

Rant over.

Dennis said:

This has been considered before, however unfortunately we do not have the human resource to effectively check and maintain 3000 records. To do this, we would have to raise our membership fees or reduce our subbie rates closer to the levels paid by many of the other national courier companies (our competitors). The conclusion we arrived at, was that neither of these options would be popular with our members.

Andy

What absolute rubbish! That sort of thing is childsplay to any pen-pusher - that's any office worker - that's any one of your office people. You're not checking and maintaining 3000 records every day. You are checking one record at a time as each new member registers and you say you had 500 new members in 12 months - 10 a week - 2 a day -WOW, what an effort to check, NOT! And what effort to maintain? Trivial - in these days of computer diaries, in these days of emails, these days of copy and paste. You say you'd have to increase membership fees or reduce payment rates to pay for the resources to check and maintain the records. Who do you think you're kidding, except yourself? Or is it just another attempt to turn or dismiss the subject? IF you had one member of your office staff devote full time to setting this up for all 3000 members, the first stage (notify them all that they "MUST provide the following documentation by the end of this month") could be done easily in a week. And I don't believe it is necessary, you could set a programme timescale of several weeks. Then maintaining the records would be a simple VERY PART TIME task for anybody. Really, you are just not interested enough, or caring enough, or professional enough to do it.

By my calculator, from 500 up to 3000 new members in 12 months, equals 2500 new members per year, 50 a week without even counting renewals. Even that many, in a perfect world, could be straight forward..... but i've been there before and believe me, it isn't :)

I would say other organisations like mtvan for example, are unable to check docs for the very same reason. It's costly and time consuming. CX do it, but they charge for the privilege :)

Andy

Paul we have several threads on exactly that... The need for a body or organisation to give this industry a standard to stop bad practise.

click here

I think its also worth noting that to hide behind " we're just supplying what the customer wants" is tosh. The customer may well be asking for something that isn't actually legally or economically possible.

Courier Expert said:

By my calculator, from 500 up to 3000 new members in 12 months, equals 2500 new members per year, 50 a week without even counting renewals. Even that many, in a perfect world, could be straight forward..... but i've been there before and believe me, it isn't :)

I would say other organisations like mtvan for example, are unable to check docs for the very same reason. It's costly and time consuming. CX do it, but they charge for the privilege :)

Andy

Just email a list of your members to VOSA and your local constabulary, and let them use their vehicle recognition cameras and software.

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

My point exactly Andy.

Which means that if one of the subbies you contract doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance then the GIT insurance which you extend to them is worthless in the event of damage/accident.

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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PHAX said:

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Certainly courier expert as a company, do not make a profit on every job we handle, HOW. Just 99.9999999% Sameday jobs jump to Economy jobs in a matter of minutes, we dont know the customer does get the reduced price. We are told they are happy with economy rather than sameday on cost alone. And 90% of jobs are cars. Forgive me if my facts are not 100% factual.

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. We do not get involved in the bidding process at all.

Andy

So now you let the courier discuss price directly with your customer?

For economy jobs, yes. The couriers quote goes directly to the customer, with 5% margin on top.

Andy

Expertly swerved, as usual.

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

My point exactly Andy.

Which means that if one of the subbies you contract doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance then the GIT insurance which you extend to them is worthless in the event of damage/accident.

How can you make such an assumption, knowing nothing about our insurance policy?

Andy

Scott Reid said:

Economy pricing is between the courier and the customer. We do not get involved in the bidding process at all.

Andy

So now you let the courier discuss price directly with your customer?

For economy jobs, yes. The couriers quote goes directly to the customer, with 5% margin on top.

Andy

Expertly swerved, as usual.

Not sure how I can make the word 'Yes' any clearer :)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

My point exactly Andy.

Which means that if one of the subbies you contract doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance then the GIT insurance which you extend to them is worthless in the event of damage/accident.

How can you make such an assumption, knowing nothing about our insurance policy?

Andy

It's no assumption Andy.

If you contract someone who doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance and they are involved in an accident then they are driving an uninsured/underinsured vehicle.

As such, in the eyes of the law any supplemental insurances which may be in place are rendered null and void.

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

My point exactly Andy.

Which means that if one of the subbies you contract doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance then the GIT insurance which you extend to them is worthless in the event of damage/accident.

How can you make such an assumption, knowing nothing about our insurance policy?

Andy

It's no assumption Andy.

If you contract someone who doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance and they are involved in an accident then they are driving an uninsured/underinsured vehicle.

As such, in the eyes of the law any supplemental insurances which may be in place are rendered null and void.

I am afraid you are making an incorrect assumption.

Andy

My sister has been working for insurance companies for over 20 years and in the eyes of law, if you are a courier, you must have git, pl and h&r. If you do not have all these in place and you are doing courier work, then you are breaking the law and your policy will be void. What part of being legel don't these people understand. It not hard. I would like to post work here, but until insurances are checked before full access is granted for this site, im not posting any work on here at all.

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

---

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

My point exactly Andy.

Which means that if one of the subbies you contract doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance then the GIT insurance which you extend to them is worthless in the event of damage/accident.

How can you make such an assumption, knowing nothing about our insurance policy?

Andy

It's no assumption Andy.

If you contract someone who doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance and they are involved in an accident then they are driving an uninsured/underinsured vehicle.

As such, in the eyes of the law any supplemental insurances which may be in place are rendered null and void.

I am afraid you are making an incorrect assumption.

Andy

Andy, please re-read the above sentence which clearly states, "It's no assumption!".

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

---

Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

My point exactly Andy.

Which means that if one of the subbies you contract doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance then the GIT insurance which you extend to them is worthless in the event of damage/accident.

How can you make such an assumption, knowing nothing about our insurance policy?

Andy

It's no assumption Andy.

If you contract someone who doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance and they are involved in an accident then they are driving an uninsured/underinsured vehicle.

As such, in the eyes of the law any supplemental insurances which may be in place are rendered null and void.

I am afraid you are making an incorrect assumption.

Andy

Andy, please re-read the above sentence which clearly states, "It's no assumption!".

You are either talking about fact, or making an assumption.

As you were not party to designing or negotiating our GIT scheme, then you cannot be talking about fact. So how can it not be an assumption?

Andy

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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My sister has been working for insurance companies for over 20 years and in the eyes of law, if you are a courier, you must have git, pl and h&r. If you do not have all these in place and you are doing courier work, then you are breaking the law and your policy will be void. What part of being legel don't these people understand. It not hard. I would like to post work here, but until insurances are checked before full access is granted for this site, im not posting any work on here at all.

I would advise anyone to check the small print of their GIT cover for clauses like the one which Darren has mentioned, as you will find that as a general rule, he is correct. Most insurers will use it as an excuse not to pay out.

However, Courier Expert have designed and negotiated our own scheme, due to the impracticalities of checking all policies at the start of a membership and rechecking them prior to every job. Remember - just because someone shows you a certificate this week - it doesn't mean they haven't cancelled it by next week. It has cost us significantly more money to do this, but the result is that we have a policy that will protect our customers in all realistic eventualities.

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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HELLO!!! .... an increase of 500 to 3000 members in 12 months :)

Andy

OF 500 TO 3000, not FROM 500 to 3000

Courier Expert said: By my calculator, from 500 up to 3000 new members in 12 months, equals 2500 new members per year, 50 a week without even counting renewals. Even that many, in a perfect world, could be straight forward..... but i've been there before and believe me, it isn't

Ooops, Andy, quick shuffle of words? Nevertheless, as a former stock controller I would regard that many records as a piece of cake!

Dennis said:

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Courier Expert said:

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HELLO!!! .... an increase of 500 to 3000 members in 12 months :)

Andy

OF 500 TO 3000, not FROM 500 to 3000

Courier Expert said: By my calculator, from 500 up to 3000 new members in 12 months, equals 2500 new members per year, 50 a week without even counting renewals. Even that many, in a perfect world, could be straight forward..... but i've been there before and believe me, it isn't

Ooops, Andy, quick shuffle of words? Nevertheless, as a former stock controller I would regard that many records as a piece of cake!

Such wasted talent :)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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My sister has been working for insurance companies for over 20 years and in the eyes of law, if you are a courier, you must have git, pl and h&r. If you do not have all these in place and you are doing courier work, then you are breaking the law and your policy will be void. What part of being legel don't these people understand. It not hard. I would like to post work here, but until insurances are checked before full access is granted for this site, im not posting any work on here at all.

I would advise anyone to check the small print of their GIT cover for clauses like the one which Darren has mentioned, as you will find that as a general rule, he is correct. Most insurers will use it as an excuse not to pay out.

However, Courier Expert have designed and negotiated our own scheme, due to the impracticalities of checking all policies at the start of a membership and rechecking them prior to every job. Remember - just because someone shows you a certificate this week - it doesn't mean they haven't cancelled it by next week. It has cost us significantly more money to do this, but the result is that we have a policy that will protect our customers in all realistic eventualities.

Andy

I wouldn't be happy subbing work out unless I knew they was fully insured. At the end of the day, the customer pays for their goods to delivered on time. It won't get there ontime if mr policeman or vosa have pulled the driver over to find they are not properly insured, meaning that they get the vehicle taken from them and possibly the goods that are on the vehicle. Makes good sense to me to check the insurances.

As for adding charging for this or subbing out for less, are you really serious? Your rates are well below standard as it is. You may need to speak to mike from shed5, he is a 1 man band and checks everyones insurance before any access to his site, this is why members who do post work, will only use members if they are on shed5. Its a no brainer for me

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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My sister has been working for insurance companies for over 20 years and in the eyes of law, if you are a courier, you must have git, pl and h&r. If you do not have all these in place and you are doing courier work, then you are breaking the law and your policy will be void. What part of being legel don't these people understand. It not hard. I would like to post work here, but until insurances are checked before full access is granted for this site, im not posting any work on here at all.

I would advise anyone to check the small print of their GIT cover for clauses like the one which Darren has mentioned, as you will find that as a general rule, he is correct. Most insurers will use it as an excuse not to pay out.

However, Courier Expert have designed and negotiated our own scheme, due to the impracticalities of checking all policies at the start of a membership and rechecking them prior to every job. Remember - just because someone shows you a certificate this week - it doesn't mean they haven't cancelled it by next week. It has cost us significantly more money to do this, but the result is that we have a policy that will protect our customers in all realistic eventualities.

Andy

I wouldn't be happy subbing work out unless I knew they was fully insured. At the end of the day, the customer pays for their goods to delivered on time. It won't get there ontime if mr policeman or vosa have pulled the driver over to find they are not properly insured, meaning that they get the vehicle taken from them and possibly the goods that are on the vehicle. Makes good sense to me to check the insurances.

As for adding charging for this or subbing out for less, are you really serious? Your rates are well below standard as it is. You may need to speak to mike from shed5, he is a 1 man band and checks everyones insurance before any access to his site, this is why members who do post work, will only use members if they are on shed5. Its a no brainer for me

Hi Darren, Unless you check docs prior to every job, you are never going to know 100%, as I said before, even if you check them the once or once a year, that doesn't mean the policy won't be cancelled next week.

While Mike's overheads are low due to being a one man band, my overheads are considerably higher, with a much larger volume of policies to check, and before you say it, no i'm not going to check them myself! Look at Courier Exchange's doc fees charge, that will give you some idea of the real cost of doing this task.

Andy

Whilst this is true you are never going to know 100%

At the moment you can be sure even 1%

Your apathy says it all

Also says a lot about your belief in the integrity of the people you use

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

Courier Expert cover the GIT insurance for jobs up to the value of £500

Do you cover their hire and reward insurance as well?

Sub contractors are responsible for their own vehicle insurance. We simply provide the GIT cover to ensure our customers goods are covered.

Andy

My point exactly Andy.

Which means that if one of the subbies you contract doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance then the GIT insurance which you extend to them is worthless in the event of damage/accident.

How can you make such an assumption, knowing nothing about our insurance policy?

Andy

It's no assumption Andy.

If you contract someone who doesn't have proper hire and reward insurance and they are involved in an accident then they are driving an uninsured/underinsured vehicle.

As such, in the eyes of the law any supplemental insurances which may be in place are rendered null and void.

I am afraid you are making an incorrect assumption.

Andy

Andy, please re-read the above sentence which clearly states, "It's no assumption!".

You are either talking about fact, or making an assumption.

As you were not party to designing or negotiating our GIT scheme, then you cannot be talking about fact. So how can it not be an assumption?

Andy

Simple Andy,

If the driver you are using does not have the words "Carriage of goods for hire and reward" on their insurance policy then they are instantly breaking the law and driving illegally if they doing courier work.

All other secondary insurances become null and void.

There is no assumption about this Andy. Just because you extend your GIT to cover a subbie does NOT mean that they are covered.

You are certainly no fool mate, so don't pretend that you are not aware of this.

Courier Expert said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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My sister has been working for insurance companies for over 20 years and in the eyes of law, if you are a courier, you must have git, pl and h&r. If you do not have all these in place and you are doing courier work, then you are breaking the law and your policy will be void. What part of being legel don't these people understand. It not hard. I would like to post work here, but until insurances are checked before full access is granted for this site, im not posting any work on here at all.

I would advise anyone to check the small print of their GIT cover for clauses like the one which Darren has mentioned, as you will find that as a general rule, he is correct. Most insurers will use it as an excuse not to pay out.

However, Courier Expert have designed and negotiated our own scheme, due to the impracticalities of checking all policies at the start of a membership and rechecking them prior to every job. Remember - just because someone shows you a certificate this week - it doesn't mean they haven't cancelled it by next week. It has cost us significantly more money to do this, but the result is that we have a policy that will protect our customers in all realistic eventualities.

Andy

Utter bollocks.

Who's your spin doctor, I'll hire him as well.

Courier Expert said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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My sister has been working for insurance companies for over 20 years and in the eyes of law, if you are a courier, you must have git, pl and h&r. If you do not have all these in place and you are doing courier work, then you are breaking the law and your policy will be void. What part of being legel don't these people understand. It not hard. I would like to post work here, but until insurances are checked before full access is granted for this site, im not posting any work on here at all.

I would advise anyone to check the small print of their GIT cover for clauses like the one which Darren has mentioned, as you will find that as a general rule, he is correct. Most insurers will use it as an excuse not to pay out.

However, Courier Expert have designed and negotiated our own scheme, due to the impracticalities of checking all policies at the start of a membership and rechecking them prior to every job. Remember - just because someone shows you a certificate this week - it doesn't mean they haven't cancelled it by next week. It has cost us significantly more money to do this, but the result is that we have a policy that will protect our customers in all realistic eventualities.

Andy

I wouldn't be happy subbing work out unless I knew they was fully insured. At the end of the day, the customer pays for their goods to delivered on time. It won't get there ontime if mr policeman or vosa have pulled the driver over to find they are not properly insured, meaning that they get the vehicle taken from them and possibly the goods that are on the vehicle. Makes good sense to me to check the insurances.

As for adding charging for this or subbing out for less, are you really serious? Your rates are well below standard as it is. You may need to speak to mike from shed5, he is a 1 man band and checks everyones insurance before any access to his site, this is why members who do post work, will only use members if they are on shed5. Its a no brainer for me

Hi Darren, Unless you check docs prior to every job, you are never going to know 100%, as I said before, even if you check them the once or once a year, that doesn't mean the policy won't be cancelled next week.

While Mike's overheads are low due to being a one man band, my overheads are considerably higher, with a much larger volume of policies to check, and before you say it, no i'm not going to check them myself! Look at Courier Exchange's doc fees charge, that will give you some idea of the real cost of doing this task.

Andy

Andy, you are a marketing guy. You have spotted the flaw in the mtvan documentation requirements and you've twisted it to try and leverage lower prices from those who show up as having no GIT.

You're a pariah in this industry!

Suggesting that a courier driver should accept a rate that leaves him with only a small profit or even a loss in the hopes of return business or a back load. That's low mate.

No courier should ever return home with a loss or a meager profit just to prop up your lifestyle.

Hi Guys, when i started this discussion i didnt realise that some many Couriers felt the same way as i do about Courier Expert, i would like to say thankyou for all the replies, i will not be bidding on any of their so called courier work anymore real or otherwise. Just one more question for admin, if you say this website is for mt van why are you even listing car/estate car work, you could start another website for mt car. I think you should remove all listings that state car or estate car. This site is for vans. Regards Paul@PT Express

Scott Reid said:

Andy, you are a marketing guy. You have spotted the flaw in the mtvan documentation requirements and you've twisted it to try and leverage lower prices from those who show up as having no GIT.

You're a pariah in this industry!

Suggesting that a courier driver should accept a rate that leaves him with only a small profit or even a loss in the hopes of return business or a back load. That's low mate.

No courier should ever return home with a loss or a meager profit just to prop up your lifestyle.

We use mtvan for a reason, but it is certainly not for the reasons that you suggest.

Andy

Scott Reid said:

Simple Andy,

If the driver you are using does not have the words "Carriage of goods for hire and reward" on their insurance policy then they are instantly breaking the law and driving illegally if they doing courier work.

All other secondary insurances become null and void.

There is no assumption about this Andy. Just because you extend your GIT to cover a subbie does NOT mean that they are covered.

You are certainly no fool mate, so don't pretend that you are not aware of this.

I do not understand..... how you can think you can make such a claim with any credibility at all, having not read our policy documents, nor been party to the negotiations between myself and the insurers, nor having read the written agreement that exists.

To help me understand, are you implying the insurers have somehow lied or deliberately mis-sold a policy to us?

Or could it be that you think your expert knowledge of insurance, is greater than the insurer who has underwritten our policy. Perhaps you somehow think they have made a mistake and you know something they don't?

I await your reply with interest.

Andy

PT EXPRESS COURIERS said:

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Hi Guys, when i started this discussion i didnt realise that some many Couriers felt the same way as i do about Courier Expert, i would like to say thankyou for all the replies, i will not be bidding on any of their so called courier work anymore real or otherwise. Just one more question for admin, if you say this website is for mt van why are you even listing car/estate car work, you could start another website for mt car. I think you should remove all listings that state car or estate car. This site is for vans. Regards Paul@PT Express

Well said Paul.

Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

Simple Andy,

If the driver you are using does not have the words "Carriage of goods for hire and reward" on their insurance policy then they are instantly breaking the law and driving illegally if they doing courier work.

All other secondary insurances become null and void.

There is no assumption about this Andy. Just because you extend your GIT to cover a subbie does NOT mean that they are covered.

You are certainly no fool mate, so don't pretend that you are not aware of this.

I do not understand..... how you can think you can make such a claim with any credibility at all, having not read our policy documents, nor been party to the negotiations between myself and the insurers, nor having read the written agreement that exists.

To help me understand, are you implying the insurers have somehow lied or deliberately mis-sold a policy to us?

Or could it be that you think your expert knowledge of insurance, is greater than the insurer who has underwritten our policy. Perhaps you somehow think they have made a mistake and you know something they don't?

I await your reply with interest.

Andy

Scott, don't bother wasting your breath mate. No matter what you say, andy will just twist it and detour away from what people are trying to say. Pathetic really.

Courier Expert said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Nightrider said:

Courier expert @ £0.55 plm. Running cost £0.20 pm = £0.40 plm without backload.

Most couriers earn more than 55 pplm with Courier Expert, that is just the starting rate for the first few jobs before becoming a trusted supplier.

Andy

In fact that is the car rate, small van rate for a trusted supplier is 66 pplm

Andy

Minimum wage = £6.30 x 37.5 hours x 52 weeks (including 4 weeks holiday and 5 days public holiday) = £12,285

52 weeks - 4 weeks holiday - 5 days public holiday = 47 weeks @ 5 days a week = 235 days

Courier expert @ £0.66 plm. Running cost £0.20 pm = £0.40 plm without backload.

£12,285 / 235 = £52.28 per day / £0.26 = 201 loaded miles per day average at an average speed of 54 mph, 7.5 hours per day, five days per week, 47 weeks per year, to achieve the equivalent of minimum wage.

Does not include running empty miles, loading time, organising jobs, servicing, invoicing etc.

Courier Expert said:

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Nightrider said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Well said Mr Speed, unfortunately this seems to be becoming the normal rather than the exception. People having to pay for the privilidge of earning less than minimum wage makes me sick.

We have a free membership option :)

Andy

This is my favourite reply, no denying the fact that you have not a hope of achieving minimum wage, but you can do so for free!

Scott Reid said:

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Courier Expert said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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My sister has been working for insurance companies for over 20 years and in the eyes of law, if you are a courier, you must have git, pl and h&r. If you do not have all these in place and you are doing courier work, then you are breaking the law and your policy will be void. What part of being legel don't these people understand. It not hard. I would like to post work here, but until insurances are checked before full access is granted for this site, im not posting any work on here at all.

I would advise anyone to check the small print of their GIT cover for clauses like the one which Darren has mentioned, as you will find that as a general rule, he is correct. Most insurers will use it as an excuse not to pay out.

However, Courier Expert have designed and negotiated our own scheme, due to the impracticalities of checking all policies at the start of a membership and rechecking them prior to every job. Remember - just because someone shows you a certificate this week - it doesn't mean they haven't cancelled it by next week. It has cost us significantly more money to do this, but the result is that we have a policy that will protect our customers in all realistic eventualities.

Andy

I wouldn't be happy subbing work out unless I knew they was fully insured. At the end of the day, the customer pays for their goods to delivered on time. It won't get there ontime if mr policeman or vosa have pulled the driver over to find they are not properly insured, meaning that they get the vehicle taken from them and possibly the goods that are on the vehicle. Makes good sense to me to check the insurances.

As for adding charging for this or subbing out for less, are you really serious? Your rates are well below standard as it is. You may need to speak to mike from shed5, he is a 1 man band and checks everyones insurance before any access to his site, this is why members who do post work, will only use members if they are on shed5. Its a no brainer for me

Hi Darren, Unless you check docs prior to every job, you are never going to know 100%, as I said before, even if you check them the once or once a year, that doesn't mean the policy won't be cancelled next week.

While Mike's overheads are low due to being a one man band, my overheads are considerably higher, with a much larger volume of policies to check, and before you say it, no i'm not going to check them myself! Look at Courier Exchange's doc fees charge, that will give you some idea of the real cost of doing this task.

Andy

Andy, you are a marketing guy. You have spotted the flaw in the mtvan documentation requirements and you've twisted it to try and leverage lower prices from those who show up as having no GIT.

You're a pariah in this industry!

Suggesting that a courier driver should accept a rate that leaves him with only a small profit or even a loss in the hopes of return business or a back load. That's low mate.

No courier should ever return home with a loss or a meager profit just to prop up your lifestyle.

At the end of the day Andy, at least these websites check insurances, unlike mtvan & Courier Expert. Neither of you give too Hoots weather your legal or not, but one day it will bite you in a big way and then we can all say to you both, we told you so

And as for mike from shed5. He knows what he is doing, that is why the members on there are like family. I can safely say that i would trust every members on there. Mike thinks about his members and not his bank balance and how to rip people off. I can't say that about you, your just plain greedy and not willing to give out a fair rate. The only reason you've used me is because your low paid drivers are letting you down. It makes perfect sense to me to a little extra and get a job done properly and not by amatuers.

PLEASE END THIS NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. I cant believe this guy draws so much attention.

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

At the end of the day Andy, at least these websites check insurances, unlike mtvan & Courier Expert. Neither of you give too Hoots weather your legal or not, but one day it will bite you in a big way and then we can all say to you both, we told you so

And as for mike from shed5. He knows what he is doing, that is why the members on there are like family. I can safely say that i would trust every members on there. Mike thinks about his members and not his bank balance and how to rip people off. I can't say that about you, your just plain greedy and not willing to give out a fair rate. The only reason you've used me is because your low paid drivers are letting you down. It makes perfect sense to me to a little extra and get a job done properly and not by amatuers.

Hi Darren, as i previously pointed pointed out, i do not believe our members would be prepared to pay the kind of doc check fees that courier exchange charge - and our running costs are not significantly different. I could do a poll of our membership, but i really do already know what the result would be! Your not a member of courier expert, so i would say that you have the least say over this issue, as it wouldn't be you paying for it, would it :)

As for Mike, he does what he does, in his own unique way and I have no issue with it. But I don't run my business as a one man band, so you really are comparing apples with pears here.

On the subject of our rates, I would say to people that we offer 66p per mile small van rate for our regulars, which beats most (or all) the other nationals. If that doesn't suit people, then just bid on your own rate for our spare jobs on mtvan.

Also Darren, considering every job you have done for us, has been at your own rate, I fail to see your problem.

Andy

Since when does courier exchange charge for checking documents. As i'm a members of courier exchange, they have never charged me for this, so what are you on about.

I wouldn't join your courier expert exchange as its all about you taking money from members on a weekly basis with low rates that you offer.

When was the last time you gave me one of your jobs. Oh yeah last week only because you was in the s**t because one of your drivers let you down. I've spoken to many who have quoted on your work and you say 66pplm is what you pay for small van. Some have quoted you on backload rates and you still didn't give them the work. So in my eyes this is all Bulls**t to me.

At the end of the day, paying 66pplm for a small van (a car pays even less) isn't something i would be boasting about. Comparing yourself to Multi-Nationals is a bit of an overestimate of where Courier Expert is in the "how big is mine " stakes, and this inhouse GIT cover is a gimmick that allows you to take on drivers who have absolutley no idea or scant regard on the legalities of what they are doing.

You say you have 3000 drivers in your network, and as a courier i would need to be grossing at least £500 a week (at your rates considerably more). Do you really have enough work for 3000 couriers? No clearly not. I daresay you have many who have yet to receive a job from you, those that might get one a week, and a very few that get work every day. Your listings offering work are therefore misleading are they not?

What you are doing may not be illegal, but it sure is unethical and that is why so many have voiced their opinions on you and your company. Your ego won't let you see that. What you see is a trailblazer. What i see is someone who is deluded, someone who is dragging down the quality of service we have all spent years attaining, and someone who just can't see the damage they are doing.

I think its a sad inditement of where this industry is going that you are allowed to be part of it

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Since when does courier exchange charge for checking documents. As i'm a members of courier exchange, they have never charged me for this, so what are you on about.

I wouldn't join your courier expert exchange as its all about you taking money from members on a weekly basis with low rates that you offer.

When was the last time you gave me one of your jobs. Oh yeah last week only because you was in the s**t because one of your drivers let you down. I've spoken to many who have quoted on your work and you say 66pplm is what you pay for small van. Some have quoted you on backload rates and you still didn't give them the work. So in my eyes this is all Bulls**t to me.

Hi Darren,

The last time i checked, it was £150, payable when you first join CX, but i understand they sometimes discount this. Am I still correct here anyone or have they scrapped it now?

Regarding economy / backload jobs, i continue to repeat (like a parrot) that the customer chooses the best quote, not courier expert. We have no input into the bidding or courier selection process!

Andy :)

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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At the end of the day, paying 66pplm for a small van (a car pays even less) isn't something i would be boasting about. Comparing yourself to Multi-Nationals is a bit of an overestimate of where Courier Expert is in the "how big is mine " stakes, and this inhouse GIT cover is a gimmick that allows you to take on drivers who have absolutley no idea or scant regard on the legalities of what they are doing.

You say you have 3000 drivers in your network, and as a courier i would need to be grossing at least £500 a week (at your rates considerably more). Do you really have enough work for 3000 couriers? No clearly not. I daresay you have many who have yet to receive a job from you, those that might get one a week, and a very few that get work every day. Your listings offering work are therefore misleading are they not?

What you are doing may not be illegal, but it sure is unethical and that is why so many have voiced their opinions on you and your company. Your ego won't let you see that. What you see is a trailblazer. What i see is someone who is deluded, someone who is dragging down the quality of service we have all spent years attaining, and someone who just can't see the damage they are doing.

I think its a sad inditement of where this industry is going that you are allowed to be part of it

The vast majority are FREE Memberships AKA Reserve Couriers.

Andy

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

I think its a sad inditement of where this industry is going that you are allowed to be part of it

I think it is called living in a free country. Perhaps you have more respect for someone like Mr Putin?

:)

Andy

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Scott Reid said:

Simple Andy,

If the driver you are using does not have the words "Carriage of goods for hire and reward" on their insurance policy then they are instantly breaking the law and driving illegally if they doing courier work.

All other secondary insurances become null and void.

There is no assumption about this Andy. Just because you extend your GIT to cover a subbie does NOT mean that they are covered.

You are certainly no fool mate, so don't pretend that you are not aware of this.

I do not understand..... how you can think you can make such a claim with any credibility at all, having not read our policy documents, nor been party to the negotiations between myself and the insurers, nor having read the written agreement that exists.

To help me understand, are you implying the insurers have somehow lied or deliberately mis-sold a policy to us?

Or could it be that you think your expert knowledge of insurance, is greater than the insurer who has underwritten our policy. Perhaps you somehow think they have made a mistake and you know something they don't?

I await your reply with interest.

Andy

Scott, don't bother wasting your breath mate. No matter what you say, andy will just twist it and detour away from what people are trying to say. Pathetic really.

Not going to East-Lancs. The whole thread is just hilarious. :-)

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

I think its a sad inditement of where this industry is going that you are allowed to be part of it

I think it is called living in a free country. Perhaps you have more respect for someone like Mr Putin?

:)

Andy

If your business had to respect minimum wage, driving hours, vehicle roadworthiness, loading, and insurance regulations, it would not exist as it does today. This is something that most people would associate with a third world country, rather than the a "free country".The frogs and the Russians had a revolution about this sort of thing.

I don't know what you mean by the free world, but as everyone knows that here the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer. Obviously thanks to businessmen such as yourself. I certainly admire Putin more than you or our wet blankets in parliament. The Russians seem to love him. If you had ever met one Russian you would know they are usualy highly educated and very fit and healthy which would put most people from the "free world" to shame.

I fail to see how being a reserve courier changes anything i've said about your misleading ads, and i also fail to see what the hell Mr Putin has to do with your ethics. You are becoming more famous for your ability to swerve points raised than you are for your rather dubious business model, and that is rather sad when the points raised are serious ones. Belittle them at your peril because they don't go away. Your attitude does nothing other than to antagonise the posters of some valid points. If anything i would say you deliberately prolong threads. You clearly like being talked about, but surely it would be better for you if it was in a postive light? Afterall, this is an open forum, for all to see, whether it be potential drivers, or potential customers.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I fail to see how being a reserve courier changes anything i've said about your misleading ads

I was answering your comment that all 3000 couriers should all expect £500 per week of work. You failed to take into account that most of them were recruited on the basis of being a reserve. I won't explain what the word reserve means, i'm sure you already know :)

Andy

I didn't say all your couriers should expect £500 a week

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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You say you have 3000 drivers in your network, and as a courier i would need to be grossing at least £500 a week (at your rates considerably more). Do you really have enough work for 3000 couriers? No clearly not. I daresay you have many who have yet to receive a job from you, those that might get one a week, and a very few that get work every day. Your listings offering work are therefore misleading are they not?

What you are doing may not be illegal, but it sure is unethical and that is why so many have voiced their opinions on you and your company. Your ego won't let you see that. What you see is a trailblazer. What i see is someone who is deluded, someone who is dragging down the quality of service we have all spent years attaining, and someone who just can't see the damage they are doing.

I think its a sad inditement of where this industry is going that you are allowed to be part of it

So are you saying they all realise what they're signing up to?

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I didn't say all your couriers should expect £500 a week

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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You say you have 3000 drivers in your network, and as a courier i would need to be grossing at least £500 a week (at your rates considerably more). Do you really have enough work for 3000 couriers?

I would say you were implying that.

In any case, we turned away 60 jobs last week, due to not having a courier immediately available. I would say last week was fairly typical, which equates to over 200 lost jobs a month.

So do we need more couriers? Yes.

Can we guarantee £500 a week for everyone? Of course not :)

Andy

"In any case, we turned away 60 jobs last week, due to not having a courier immediately available. I would say last week was fairly typical, which equates to over 200 lost jobs a month.

So do we need more couriers? Yes."

Unbelievable, you boast of 3000 members on your books and say a majority of your members are 'reserve' couriers, (second choice for work) yet you are turning down over 200 jobs a month? You honestly can't cover those jobs with any of your members or by posting the jobs anywhere else?

Could it be the monkeys have had their fill of peanuts? :)

Keylyne Services Ltd said:

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"In any case, we turned away 60 jobs last week, due to not having a courier immediately available. I would say last week was fairly typical, which equates to over 200 lost jobs a month.

So do we need more couriers? Yes."

Unbelievable, you boast of 3000 members on your books and say a majority of your members are 'reserve' couriers, (second choice for work) yet you are turning down over 200 jobs a month? You honestly can't cover those jobs with any of your members or by posting the jobs anywhere else?

Could it be the monkeys have had their fill of peanuts? :)

Whilst neither accusing, assuming, alluding, conspiring or god forbid even stating a fact, in my own personal opinion which is nothing more than my personal opinion and cannot be supposed to be neither accusation, allusion, conspiracy or fact or even opinion of anyone else in the world either alive in the present, past nor those who may allegedly, actually possibly or imaginably be born in the future, currently gestating, in state of pre or post-conception, whether intended to be retained or otherwise,

Like I opined before, nothing he says stacks up. :-)

Your own "Retail Client" has, let's say, requested (since I don't want to use the word banned!) that you no longer place their work on here.

We can all draw a few reasonable conclusions as to the type of vehicles and people that you were subcontracting to do those deliveries which may have prompted that bollo/meeting.

Perhaps you should go back to the delivering take away meals model? Maybe those clients wont be so unnecessarily fussy?

Either way, please stop body swerving, avoiding, spinning and generally ignoring the main points which have been raised in the posts on this thread.

The comments you carefully choose to make may sound reasonable to an unseasoned newbie, but there are enough of us on here with the ** detectors finely enough tuned (which doesn't take much refinement) to spot it when we read it.

Scott.

As an aside, and especially for anyone who is very new to this site and the forum. The majority of courier companies here at mtvan make use of this site to obtain the services of a a courier who is close to the job which they can't cover and are willing to pay a reasonable and fair rate to ensure that a decent and reliable courier will be there at collection within an half and hour to an hour.

Not every, in fact, few of the jobs posted are actually genuine backloads!

Of course if you are in the area and it's a back load to you then you can quote low and get it.

If you are in the area and quote low and don't get it. You probably don't want to bother with that company's work in the future.

Yo!.... Just read yer Q+A n fixed. and after reading the whole script you is full of shit bro... so you been avin us over, payin 25pplm for ergent when in fact you say you pay 1.09 to 1.75 pplm dependin on wheels. Or is u sayin you charge that rate to yer punters and we get alf ie .54 to .88pplm?

Q. Can i get work directly from Courier Expert?

A. As a national courier company, COURIER EXPERT has courier work of it’s own. We will pay you at least 50% (55% after 3 months) of the price we charge the customer (That’s £1.09 to £1.75 depending on vehicle type) per loaded mile for urgent sameday work. We also offer economy work, you would bid for this and you will receive 100% of the price you quote minus admin fee, courier bible fee, weekly subs fee and subscriptions and any other fee we decide to make up along the way its a win win situation.

Keylyne Services Ltd said:

---

"In any case, we turned away 60 jobs last week, due to not having a courier immediately available. I would say last week was fairly typical, which equates to over 200 lost jobs a month.

So do we need more couriers? Yes."

Unbelievable, you boast of 3000 members on your books and say a majority of your members are 'reserve' couriers, (second choice for work) yet you are turning down over 200 jobs a month? You honestly can't cover those jobs with any of your members or by posting the jobs anywhere else?

Could it be the monkeys have had their fill of peanuts? :)

When we had 500 members this time last year- if someone had told me that Courier Expert would grow to 3000 members within 12 months (which we have) - i would have responded by saying that all our problems regarding covering jobs would be over. However, the reality is that we still do not know how many is enough. Even looking back to the days we were using Courier Exchange to cover jobs, there were still many jobs that were not sometimes coverable - especially on a friday afternoon. The fact is our traffic continues to grow and we are turning away work, daily.

You mention that these reserve couriers are our second choice for work - I would answer that by saying that that we are also their second choice. More than likely, they are busy doing something else most of the time.

Andy

Mingeeter Express said:

---

Yo!.... Just read yer Q+A n fixed. and after reading the whole script you is full of shit bro... so you been avin us over, payin 25pplm for ergent when in fact you say you pay 1.09 to 1.75 pplm dependin on wheels. Or is u sayin you charge that rate to yer punters and we get alf ie .54 to .88pplm?

Q. Can i get work directly from Courier Expert?

A. As a national courier company, COURIER EXPERT has courier work of it’s own. We will pay you at least 50% (55% after 3 months) of the price we charge the customer (That’s £1.09 to £1.75 depending on vehicle type) per loaded mile for urgent sameday work. We also offer economy work, you would bid for this and you will receive 100% of the price you quote.

Hi Bro :)

I am not sure what you are asking, but i think you have already posted the answer to your question.

Andy

Scott Reid said:

Whilst neither accusing, assuming, alluding, conspiring or god forbid even stating a fact, in my own personal opinion which is nothing more than my personal opinion and cannot be supposed to be neither accusation, allusion, conspiracy or fact or even opinion of anyone else in the world either alive in the present, past nor those who may allegedly, actually possibly or imaginably be born in the future, currently gestating, in state of pre or post-conception, whether intended to be retained or otherwise,

Like I opined before, nothing he says stacks up. :-)

Thank you, thank you, thank you Scott. Pissing myself. Now I can go get shaved and prepare myself for the big wide courier world out there today. LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL.

Scott Reid said:

Whilst neither accusing, assuming, alluding, conspiring or god forbid even stating a fact, in my own personal opinion which is nothing more than my personal opinion and cannot be supposed to be neither accusation, allusion, conspiracy or fact or even opinion of anyone else in the world either alive in the present, past nor those who may allegedly, actually possibly or imaginably be born in the future, currently gestating, in state of pre or post-conception, whether intended to be retained or otherwise,

I may just have to steal this... lol

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

---

Scott Reid said:

Whilst neither accusing, assuming, alluding, conspiring or god forbid even stating a fact, in my own personal opinion which is nothing more than my personal opinion and cannot be supposed to be neither accusation, allusion, conspiracy or fact or even opinion of anyone else in the world either alive in the present, past nor those who may allegedly, actually possibly or imaginably be born in the future, currently gestating, in state of pre or post-conception, whether intended to be retained or otherwise,

I may just have to steal this... Lo

Like it lol, is this the end of this matter now or is everyone just using this thread to get their reputation numbers up?

Jobseekers allowance (the dole) = £72.40. Single housing allowance = £70. Total =£142.40

Courier Expert @55 pplm; Running cost 40pplm; margin 15pplm.

£142.4 / £0.15 = 950 loaded miles per week. 1900 miles total per week. 380 miles per day. 50mph over 7.5 hours.

Nightrider said:

---

Jobseekers allowance (the dole) = £72.40. Single housing allowance = £70. Total =£142.40

Courier Expert @55 pplm; Running cost 40pplm; margin 15pplm.

£142.4 / £0.15 = 950 loaded miles per week. 1900 miles total per week. 380 miles per day. 50mph over 7.5 hours.

Can you do the same calculation using our 66 pplm small van rate please?

Also, as an opportunity for you to prove your impartiality, can you also do the same calculation using the rate on offer from our competitors. Royal Mail Sameday / City Sprint / Rico etc

Thanks :)

Andy

CitySprint 47pplm, Royal Mail Sameday 50pplm, TNT 54pplm, Rico similar. I fail to see what that has to do with the rates Courier Expert offer tho?

If someone had a go at me for thumping them in the face, i wouldn't say, "yeh well, Go down there and you'd be punched and kicked as well".

The point i'm making is that being marginally better than the Nationals is no defence, its still a paltry figure.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

---

CitySprint 47pplm, Royal Mail Sameday 50pplm, TNT 54pplm, Rico similar. I fail to see what that has to do with the rates Courier Expert offer tho?

If someone had a go at me for thumping them in the face, i wouldn't say, "yeh well, Go down there and you'd be punched and kicked as well".

The point i'm making is that being marginally better than the Nationals is no defence, its still a paltry figure.

They are our competitors, both in terms of courier recruitment and in terms of customers looking for a courier company with national coverage.

Would you really say 47p compared to 66p is only marginally better?

My calculator says it is 40% better, that whole 40% goes in the couriers pocket according to nightrider, who says his running costs are 40 pplm.

Andy

£142.40 / £0.26 = 548 loaded miles per week, 1095 miles per week, 219 miles per day, 30 mph for 7.5 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

Does not include waiting time, loading time, empty miles, servicing, booking jobs, invoicing jobs,et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

It seems to me that anybody would be better off staying at home and not bothering. Which contrasts with the claims on the Courier Expert website, such as

"Courier Expert – one of the UK’s leaders in the Courier Business – has helped hundreds of people just like you become well paid, self-employed couriers, and we can also help you too… JOIN OUR COURIER NETWORK TODAY!"

As far as I can tell, you would be lucky to earn more than the dole, and find it impossible to achieve minimum wage.

Courier Expert said:

My calculator says it is 40% better, that whole 40% goes in the couriers pocket according to nightrider, who says his running costs are 40 pplm.

Andy

Please could you enlighten us which van costs less than £0.20 per mile to run. £0.20 per mile equates to £0.40 per loaded mile, without a backload, in case you were wondering.

Nightrider said:

---

Courier Expert said:

My calculator says it is 40% better, that whole 40% goes in the couriers pocket according to nightrider, who says his running costs are 40 pplm.

Andy

Please could you enlighten us which van costs less than £0.20 per mile to run. £0.20 per mile equates to £0.40 per loaded mile, without a backload, in case you were wondering.

I wasn't arguing with you, I just quoted your own example and asked you to prove you are impartial, by doing the same calculation using our competitors rates :)

Andy

Nightrider said:

---

£142.40 / £0.26 = 548 loaded miles per week, 1095 miles per week, 219 miles per day, 30 mph for 7.5 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

Does not include waiting time, loading time, empty miles, servicing, booking jobs, invoicing jobs,et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

It seems to me that anybody would be better off staying at home and not bothering. Which contrasts with the claims on the Courier Expert website, such as

"Courier Expert – one of the UK’s leaders in the Courier Business – has helped hundreds of people just like you become well paid, self-employed couriers, and we can also help you too… JOIN OUR COURIER NETWORK TODAY!"

As far as I can tell, you would be lucky to earn more than the dole, and find it impossible to achieve minimum wage.

OK, maybe i should add a disclaimer.....

"Courier Expert – one of the UK’s leaders in the Courier Business – has helped hundreds of people just like you become well paid, self-employed couriers (compared to all of our national competitors), and we can also help you too… JOIN OUR COURIER NETWORK TODAY!"

Does that sound better?

Andy

I call anything below 75pplm paltry, and 66 is below 75, and 55 is a lot below 66. Indeed if we were to keep up with what was going on in 1998 when i came into the industy you should be looking at 90pplm.

Do you honestly believe you're in the same bracket as CitySprint and Rico? You wish!

And as you yourself admitted you haven't got the volume of work to make the claim "well paid, self employed couriers" Or did you mean well paid as long as its on a Tuesday in May when you happen to get lucky with 2 jobs going the same way?

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

---

And as you yourself admitted you haven't got the volume of work to make the claim "well paid, self employed couriers" Or did you mean well paid as long as its on a Tuesday in May when you happen to get lucky with 2 jobs going the same way?

Look at the twitter feed, 21,000 GTM's

OK, we are not Citysprint in terms of volume but we are not insubstantial either.

Andy

Would you say 80,000 miles a year is a good figure for a courier to expect to do?

And if you do and lets say he gets lucky and gets 30% of his "dead miles" paid.

At 66p a mile we'd be looking at 40,000 x 66, and 12,000 miles at 66p, a total of £34,320.

Lets also be generous and say he's doing 50 miles to the gallon? So thats 1600 gallons or £9600 or there abouts

So that means after fuel he's grossing £24720

Courier insurance and GIT.. lets call it £2K, maintenance on the vehicle? Another £2k assuming nothing major and we now have a figure of £20,720

Note i have also assumed no holidays or anything in that figure needed to replace the soon to be knackered vehicle. (every 3 years it'll need replacing so even a half decent 2nd hand will set you back at least £4k)

I have also taken nothing out for mobile phones, membership for whatever exchange you decide to join, or anything else.

Do you call that a "well paid self employed courier"?

At 55pplm the figure ends up being £15,000

Also worth noting that even if someone is daft enough to work at these rates you haven't actually got the volume to give them 40,000 paid miles have you?

Thats why I have a problem with your misleading advert as do many others.

It's misleading.

Would you do it?

Courier Expert said:

OK, maybe i should add a disclaimer.....

"Courier Expert – one of the UK’s leaders in the Courier Business – has helped hundreds of people just like you become well paid, self-employed couriers (compared to all of our national competitors), and we can also help you too… JOIN OUR COURIER NETWORK TODAY!"

Does that sound better?

Andy

No, you should remove "well paid" as it is obviously not possible.

This is beginning to sound like an exert from Monty Python and the Holy Grail!

Arthur: "Old woman!"

Dennis: "Man."

A: "Sorry. Old man! Whose castle is that?"

D: "I'm 37!"

A: "What?"

D: "I'm 37, I'm not old!"

A: "Well, I can't just call you 'man'."

D: "Well, you could say 'Dennis'."

A: "I didn't know you were called Dennis."

D: "You never bothered to find out, did you?"

A: "I did say sorry about the old woman, but from behind you looked--"

D: "Well, I object. You're automatically treatin' me like an inferior!"

A: "Well, I am King."

D: "Oh, King, eh, very nice. And how'd you get that, then? By exploitin' the workers, by hangin' on to our dated imperialist domga, which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's going to be any progress--"

Wife: "Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here-- Oh, how'd you do."

A: "Hello, good woman. I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Whose castle is that?"

W: "King of the who?"

A: "The Britons."

W: "Who are the Britons?"

A: "We are, we all are, and I am your King."

W: "I didn't know we had a King. I thought we were an autonomous collective."

D: "You're fooling yourself. We're livin' in a dictatorship, a self-perpetuating autocracy, in which the working class--"

W: "Oh, there you go, bringing class into it again--"

D: "But that's what it's all about! If only people would listen--"

A: "Please, please, good people! I am in haste. Whose castle is that?"

W: "No one lives there."

A: "Then who is your lord?"

W: "We don't have a lord."

A: "What?"

D: "I told you. We're an narco-syndicous commune. We take it in turn, to act as sort of an officer for the week--"

A: Yes I see."

D: "--but all the decisions of that officer hae to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting--"

A: "Yes, I see."

D: "--by a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs--"

A: "Be quiet."

D: "--or by a two-thirds majority, in the case of--"

A: "Be quiet, I order you, be quiet!"

W: "Order, eh? Who's he think he is?"

A: "Why, I am your King!"

W: "I didn't vote for you."

A: "You don't vote for Kings."

W: "Well, how'd you become King, then?"

A: "The Lady of the Lake,... [angels sing] ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [singing stops] THAT is why I'm your king!"

D: "Listen, strange women, lyin' in ponds, distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. SUPREME executive power derives from a mandate of the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

A: "Shut up!"

D: "You can't expect to weild supreme executive power, just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

A: "Shut up!"

D: "Why, if I went around, sayin' I was an emperor, just 'cause some moistened dink had lubbed a symitar at me, they'd put me away!"

A: "Shut up! Will you shut up!" (punch)

D: "Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the system!"

A: "Shut up!" (punch)

D: "Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm bein' repressed!"

A: "Bloody peasant!"

Strange that, I have quoted for a number of jobs over the last few weeks, both sameday and economic all at what I considered to be decent rates. How many was I successful with? Absolutely NONE. Is that because the jobs were never there in the first place or did they go for a price even lower than mine? If I got much lower I would end up either paying for the privilege of doing the job or pushing my van there and back to cut down on running costs. I really do wonder how the winners of these jobs (if there are any winners) actually make enough to make it pay. How many jobs do I need to go after in order to get one? If, as you say, you are loosing 200 jobs a month as you say you are why are you loosing them? Surely it can't be because the labour rates are too high! So the problem must be elsewhere. It cant be because you have no couriers to cover it if there are 3000 on your register, unless all the free members (the ones without their own insurances etc) are all working in their normal full time jobs because they only do courier work as a part time business. It can't be because you dont have the office staff to manage and allocate the work. So why are you turning these jobs away? Are they really there in the first place? Every notification I have had from CE asks me to apply by phone or apply through the website.

A) I cannot and will not phone a premium rate number from a mobile and B) It is extremely dangerous or might even be illegal to attempt to access a website whilst driving. If I were to pull up to do either every time I got an alert I would probably do about 120 miles a day as opposed to the 300 or so I need to even make ends meet (assuming half of these are dead miles)

As to your claim of this being a well paid job, it isn't really. I was earning more than what I am today 25 years ago. As were a lot of other people. This is really hard mind numbing work and people like us (couriers) make people like you (courier companies) a fair bit of money. (Andy, as i have stated before, I am not really bothered what you earn and hats off to you for coming up with the idea) but maybe its time to be a little fairer. Amazingly enough, when i had a business I had 26 people working for the company and we treated them very well-in return they worked their nads off and did very well for the company in return -swings and roundabouts etc.

GeeGee vans said:

---

Strange that, I have quoted for a number of jobs over the last few weeks, both sameday and economic all at what I considered to be decent rates. How many was I successful with? Absolutely NONE. Is that because the jobs were never there in the first place or did they go for a price even lower than mine? If I got much lower I would end up either paying for the privilege of doing the job or pushing my van there and back to cut down on running costs. I really do wonder how the winners of these jobs (if there are any winners) actually make enough to make it pay. How many jobs do I need to go after in order to get one? If, as you say, you are loosing 200 jobs a month as you say you are why are you loosing them? Surely it can't be because the labour rates are too high! So the problem must be elsewhere. It cant be because you have no couriers to cover it if there are 3000 on your register, unless all the free members (the ones without their own insurances etc) are all working in their normal full time jobs because they only do courier work as a part time business. It can't be because you dont have the office staff to manage and allocate the work. So why are you turning these jobs away? Are they really there in the first place? Every notification I have had from CE asks me to apply by phone or apply through the website.

A) I cannot and will not phone a premium rate number from a mobile and B) It is extremely dangerous or might even be illegal to attempt to access a website whilst driving. If I were to pull up to do either every time I got an alert I would probably do about 120 miles a day as opposed to the 300 or so I need to even make ends meet (assuming half of these are dead miles)

As to your claim of this being a well paid job, it isn't really. I was earning more than what I am today 25 years ago. As were a lot of other people. This is really hard mind numbing work and people like us (couriers) make people like you (courier companies) a fair bit of money. (Andy, as i have stated before, I am not really bothered what you earn and hats off to you for coming up with the idea) but maybe its time to be a little fairer. Amazingly enough, when i had a business I had 26 people working for the company and we treated them very well-in return they worked their nads off and did very well for the company in return -swings and roundabouts etc.

I cannot give you precise answers without looking at specific jobs individually, but we all know the economy jobs are a bidding process, so they either go to the cheapest bidder on courier expert, or the cheapest bidder from another website they may have advertised the load on.

And yes, we really do turn jobs away. It doesn't matter how many office staff I have, if there is no available courier, then we can't do the delivery, end of story. However, I can assure you it pains me to turn down these jobs and every day, I am working on ways to solve this problem.

As for what I earn, well i can assure you my tax return will show that I earn't even less than Speed's worst case scenario for a CE courier doing 80,000 miles a year!

Andy

Courier Expert said:

---

Nightrider said:

---

Courier Expert said:

My calculator says it is 40% better, that whole 40% goes in the couriers pocket according to nightrider, who says his running costs are 40 pplm.

Andy

Please could you enlighten us which van costs less than £0.20 per mile to run. £0.20 per mile equates to £0.40 per loaded mile, without a backload, in case you were wondering.

I wasn't arguing with you, I just quoted your own example and asked you to prove you are impartial, by doing the same calculation using our competitors rates :)

Andy

No one is saying that your competitors (regardless of the fact they are not your competitors in terms of company size) are better.

They are saying that even at 40% better (which I haven't verified) is still paltry and unworkable.

And at the very least, some of those companies have advertised work on here and realised that subbies here were not willing to work for those rates and so have moved on elsewhere looking for the more gullible owner drivers elsewhere.

You unfortunately have not.

The point being in case you missed it, they aren't here, you are! So it's your business model and practices we are all discussing. Not theirs.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

---

Would you say 80,000 miles a year is a good figure for a courier to expect to do?

And if you do and lets say he gets lucky and gets 30% of his "dead miles" paid.

At 66p a mile we'd be looking at 40,000 x 66, and 12,000 miles at 66p, a total of £34,320.

Lets also be generous and say he's doing 50 miles to the gallon? So thats 1600 gallons or £9600 or there abouts

So that means after fuel he's grossing £24720

Courier insurance and GIT.. lets call it £2K, maintenance on the vehicle? Another £2k assuming nothing major and we now have a figure of £20,720

Note i have also assumed no holidays or anything in that figure needed to replace the soon to be knackered vehicle. (every 3 years it'll need replacing so even a half decent 2nd hand will set you back at least £4k)

I have also taken nothing out for mobile phones, membership for whatever exchange you decide to join, or anything else.

Do you call that a "well paid self employed courier"?

At 55pplm the figure ends up being £15,000

Also worth noting that even if someone is daft enough to work at these rates you haven't actually got the volume to give them 40,000 paid miles have you?

Thats why I have a problem with your misleading advert as do many others.

It's misleading.

Would you do it?

+1 Like I keep saying, the claims don't stack up!

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

---

Scott Reid said:

Whilst neither accusing, assuming, alluding, conspiring or god forbid even stating a fact, in my own personal opinion which is nothing more than my personal opinion and cannot be supposed to be neither accusation, allusion, conspiracy or fact or even opinion of anyone else in the world either alive in the present, past nor those who may allegedly, actually possibly or imaginably be born in the future, currently gestating, in state of pre or post-conception, whether intended to be retained or otherwise,

I may just have to steal this... Lol

Be my guest Rob :-)

Scott Reid said:

And at the very least, some of those companies have advertised work on here and realised that subbies here were not willing to work for those rates and so have moved on elsewhere looking for the more gullible owner drivers elsewhere.

You unfortunately have not.

The point being in case you missed it, they aren't here, you are! So it's your business model and practices we are all discussing. Not theirs.

If we are not discussing competitors, simply because they are not mtvan members, then our rates are irrelevant. Every job we sub out on mtvan, are at the rates offered to us.

Andy

I do also remember an old thread where I mentioned that CE had called me to cover a job and I refused it straight away.

In this thread he had been asked whether or not CE checks for proper insurances. His reply was that "of course they always ask for copies of the relevant insurances via email before allocating the job.

Seems like the answer to that question has changed somewhat!

Scott Reid said:

---

I do also remember an old thread where I mentioned that CE had called me to cover a job and I refused it straight away.

In this thread he had been asked whether or not CE checks for proper insurances. His reply was that "of course they always ask for copies of the relevant insurances via email before allocating the job.

Seems like the answer to that question has changed somewhat!

You are correct, but that was before we had a universal GIT policy.

Andy

I am a French Canadian woman who arrived in Hull on March the first of this year. I am an admin assistant and I just can’t find a decent job in this town. I will make sure my husband gets your book and starts his own courrier business. He used to be a postman like you so it should be easy He now works as a security officer on a rota system, 4 days in, 4 days off. The extra income will be welcome. When I read stories like yours, it makes me want to get involved. If you develop your business in or near Hull, I want to work for you. You are inspiring. We are thinking about relocating in Leeds so it will be even easier to drive around the UK, Leeds being more central. Anyways. Just a few thoughts. Have a good day TL – Hull

This is from a review on the Courier Expert Driver Zone, this mad woman has not even seen the book let alone signed and she is singing praise! How strange all the reviews are the complete opposite of opinions here and on other courier forums.

Ever feel like this

Talking of Universal GIT's... lol

Nightrider said:

---

I am a French Canadian woman who arrived in Hull on March the first of this year. I am an admin assistant and I just can’t find a decent job in this town. I will make sure my husband gets your book and starts his own courrier business. He used to be a postman like you so it should be easy He now works as a security officer on a rota system, 4 days in, 4 days off. The extra income will be welcome. When I read stories like yours, it makes me want to get involved. If you develop your business in or near Hull, I want to work for you. You are inspiring. We are thinking about relocating in Leeds so it will be even easier to drive around the UK, Leeds being more central. Anyways. Just a few thoughts. Have a good day TL – Hull

This is from a review on the Courier Expert Driver Zone, this mad woman has not even seen the book let alone signed and she is singing praise! How strange all the reviews are the complete opposite of opinions here and on other courier forums.

You don't actually think I made that up do you? Lol

Andy

Courier Expert said:

---

Nightrider said:

---

I am a French Canadian woman who arrived in Hull on March the first of this year. I am an admin assistant and I just can’t find a decent job in this town. I will make sure my husband gets your book and starts his own courrier business. He used to be a postman like you so it should be easy He now works as a security officer on a rota system, 4 days in, 4 days off. The extra income will be welcome. When I read stories like yours, it makes me want to get involved. If you develop your business in or near Hull, I want to work for you. You are inspiring. We are thinking about relocating in Leeds so it will be even easier to drive around the UK, Leeds being more central. Anyways. Just a few thoughts. Have a good day TL – Hull

This is from a review on the Courier Expert Driver Zone, this mad woman has not even seen the book let alone signed and she is singing praise! How strange all the reviews are the complete opposite of opinions here and on other courier forums.

You don't actually think I made that up do you? Lol

Andy

Did I say you had made it up? It's a review of your misleading website. It only proves some poor fool has been sucked in by your spiel.

Nightrider said:

How strange all the reviews are the complete opposite of opinions here and on other courier forums.

Did I say you had made it up?

No you didn't actually say it, just implied :)

Andy

You are either paranoid or have a guilty consciense. Nothing is implied. I have read several hundred remarks about your company away from your website, and none of them are positive. However you have page dedicated to people gushing how great a chap you are. Upon closer examination it is apparent that they are from people with no experience of the industry, and that the majority either think the spiel on your website and in your book is great, not that they would know any better.

Well nothing, s changed here! Usual beat up the successful guy seems to be happening again.

The most important thing that you are all missing is "SUPPLY AND DEMAND "

What Andy dose is Andy's business and should not be a reflection on your own, The point is the "supply " is inevitable because the "demand " is there.

Why wouldn't you want the jobs offered : 1. Rate not good enough 2. Not in my field 3. Rate not good enough 4. Eerr rate not good enough

THEN DONT LOOK, QUOTE, OR SUBSCRIBE

The thoughts that this is a courier led business is perhaps making a few of you deluded, The customer is the one that leads the way because they want a cheaper" rate " to rely on a rate is a recipe for disaster there is no set" rate" as in the building world you work to a schedule of works this sets the price for the job .

Couriers have no such thing, 98% are self employed or owner drivers therefore, how can you demand that every one follows the same rate We WOULD ALL BE CHASING THE SAME MONEY ,

And to rely on a back load is absolutely ludicrous if the job doesn't pay enough then unfortunately that's your fault not any one else's because you and you alone supplied the rate that you and you alone wants.

Retail customers are the people whom want TV/washer delivered cheaply all the Andy and his company do is fill that niche in the market evidently cheaply, To sum this up in two words

SUCSESS = JEALOUSY

AS A CAVIATE TO THE ABOVE POST

The words expressed are mine and mine alone, I neither know or subscribe to the above company or directors,

LOL

Well said Terry, couldn't agree with you more. Personally I have no problems with the success of Andy or his company. My points have been, and I suppose the points of many others is, you can get to a level where you cannot operate or supply a service financially. I know the level I will not go under and therefore once the "bidding" (I hate that word) gets to that level I will look elsewhere. Looking at some of the comments in this thread alone I would suspect a lot of other couriers will also be looking elsewhere.

If by succesful you're referring to the fleecing of the naive then yes he is indeed succesful. The taking advantage of those who have no previous knowledge or experience, who haven't actually worked out that the mileage rates on offer are not workable, and many of whom don't realise or just don't care whether they have correct insurance or not. If that is how we measure success then it's a sad day.

Letting ANY courier company get away with these sort of practises by saying nothing about it just means more and more will fall foul. You and your business will be affected too. I assume you have the correct insurance in place, your costs are therefore higher than those that do not.

You confuse jealousy with legality and common decency

It is up to everyone who abides by the law of the land to weed out those that don't isn't it?

Or is it ok with you to turn a blind eye?

Gee Gee are you a CE member? Apparently CE has a branch in your street same postcode!

MK BIKES said:

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Gee Gee are you a CE member? Apparently CE has a branch in your street same postcode!

Do you talk in your sleep about this subject? lol

Andy

I think some are forgetting that this has nothing whatsoever to do envy or fear about a the competition. Its nothing to do with the old school having a go at some new idea either. Its not a new idea anyway, its been done before.

This is to do with someone who makes false promises with their adverts, suggesting there is a job to be had when there isn't, its about using members addresses as a means to push their website further up the search engines, the legalities of which i shall leave for others to discuss, and moreover (as the other thread running alongside this one suggests) its about adding to the growing problem of uninsured drivers coming into the industry undercutting hardworking LEGAL Couriers.

What is wrong is that its all very misleading and there's no need for it.

Its dishonest.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think some are forgetting that this has nothing whatsoever to do envy or fear about a the competition.

Regarding envy, you only speak for yourself. It is clear that the more successful courier expert is, the more it annoys certain people. Fortunately, I can still count them on one hand, maybe two. In the context of 3000 members, were really not doing so bad :)

Andy

Again only using part of the quote, why not put what i said its down to and answer that?

I think that is what annoys people, the fact it takes so long to get an honest answer from you instead of all this swerving around picking certian bits to comment on but leaving out the bits that matter

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think some are forgetting that this has nothing whatsoever to do envy or fear about a the competition. Its nothing to do with the old school having a go at some new idea either. Its not a new idea anyway, its been done before.

This is to do with someone who makes false promises with their adverts, suggesting there is a job to be had when there isn't, its about using members addresses as a means to push their website further up the search engines, the legalities of which i shall leave for others to discuss, and moreover (as the other thread running alongside this one suggests) its about adding to the growing problem of uninsured drivers coming into the industry undercutting hardworking LEGAL Couriers.

What is wrong is that its all very misleading and there's no need for it.

Its dishonest.

You leave the real issues unanswered, and i suspect its down to the fact that there really is no defence

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Again only using part of the quote, why not put what i said its down to and answer that?

You leave the real issues unanswered, and i suspect its down to the fact that there really is no defence

I only quote the parts I am answering, rather than have endless repetition on this page.

As for answering the real issues, I have. I told you, it's down to who pays for doing accreditation checks. Even you agreed on that point, albeit in 2013 from a post you had forgotten about :)

CX pay for it (or rather their members do) by charging a one off fee of £169

City Sprint pay for it by subbing out at 19p per mile less than us

So what should courier expert do?

Pay thousands of pounds in development costs to create an automated checking system? This can be done but it takes time and there are other priorities.

Recruit more staff? As per the above solution, it has to be paid for. (In your own words)

Andy

I am now getting confused about which thread is which, they both seem to have become all about courier expert. I think i need a break :)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

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Gee Gee are you a CE member? Apparently CE has a branch in your street same postcode!

Do you talk in your sleep about this subject? lol

Andy

Come on, don't answer other peoples questions when you avoid your own.

But here's one for you were you actually asked by shutl not to list the work on here or did you actually lose the work?

MK BIKES said:

But here's one for you were you actually asked by shutl not to list the work on here or did you actually lose the work?

I am not discussing my customers business on here but if you check our twitter feed, or even god forbid become a member, you will see there has been no reduction in our work levels :)

Andy

MK BIKES said:

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Courier Expert said:

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MK BIKES said:

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Gee Gee are you a CE member? Apparently CE has a branch in your street same postcode!

Do you talk in your sleep about this subject? lol

Andy

Come on, don't answer other peoples questions when you avoid your own.

I was just worried about you :)

Andy

Mwhahahahahahahaha