Unbelievable rates

I quoted on a job on Courier Exchange today for a luton job 223 miles i quoted 230 plus vat and he told me point blank id have to bid 145 to get it wtf! I'd love to no who's doing this including congestion charge how? And I also said to him what's it doing on Courier Exchange if you've got that price snatch there hand off unreal it's winding me up sorry to go on guys but you're don't realise what there doing to job I'm angry

Yep. Makesno sense quoting likethat. I am with you 100%

I turned a few jobs down today on Courier Exchange. Rates have been desperate today, far worse than I normally see.

It's unreal int it I no apollo and professional response are trying to out do each other and I've had both companies track me on Courier Exchange phone me and offer me work but not for even. 1.00 a mile for my brand new mercedes luton we taillift they said I quote 90p is about where I should be my response was that's small van rate fella The line then went dead lol ;-) unreal

Not sure they care if you have a brand new Merc or a 1995 LDV they just want cheap. One I turned down was 79p a mile for a LWB van.

The internet and the mentioned exchange sites are the reason rates are so low. part time 'couriers' [topping up their benefits, etc] that are just 'playing' at it, with no business acumen, who take on jobs at poor rates in the hope of the dreaded backload are responsible too. Best thing is to have a price, stick to it and move on if outbid!

One cannot blame the vendors, if there are fools around willing to work for naff all! If drivers were sensible, vendors would have no choice than to offer more money!

Agreed and that's why I am turning them down.

That's why I'm turning them down who wants to be a busy fool? Not me

Cheaper to stay at home than move at silly rates.

I also turn down silly rates. That's seven just on this one point. Could it be the start we are waiting for. Everyone turn down silly rates!

I have to confess that I am a ex Union Shop Steward and love to rally the troops for a good cause, and this is certainly one of those.

Well said mate from saddlebow if we all stuck together we'd soon get decent rates :-)

We work on a simple system, 1. We advertise a job. 2. When an offer comes in we check out the driver. 3. Look at who is the closest for a quick collection. 4. Then look to see if the rate quoted falls within our end user quoted price range. 5. Job allocated.

It's not always about the driver cost but also the ability to service the customer in a quick and professional manner.

We sent a transit job out last week on a 25 mile drop. The driver cost was £2.00 per mile. The job needed covering urgently and that customer spends over 2k a week with us.

Yes the driver cost was high but it was 17:30 on a friday night.

M&K Logistics said:

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That's why I'm turning them down who wants to be a busy fool? Not me

Sorry if this sounds harsh M&K - but you are part of the problem in the first place.

223 mile job into central london (you mentioned congestion) and quoted £230?

That my friend is where the problem starts, unless you had a return job already prebooked and just needed to get yourself down there ? In which case please ignore.

But you have stated that you have worked for £1 or 90p per mile for the likes of those companies you mention in the original post.

Nottingham & Derby Couriers said:

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We work on a simple system, 1. We advertise a job. 2. When an offer comes in we check out the driver. 3. Look at who is the closest for a quick collection. 4. Then look to see if the rate quoted falls within our end user quoted price range. 5. Job allocated.

It's not always about the driver cost but also the ability to service the customer in a quick and professional manner.

We sent a transit job out last week on a 25 mile drop. The driver cost was £2.00 per mile. The job needed covering urgently and that customer spends over 2k a week with us.

Yes the driver cost was high but it was 17:30 on a friday night.

£50 for a 25 mile job? Surely that's not out of the ordinary, minimum charge. ESPECIALLY on a Friday afternoon,

HSP Couriers said:

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M&K Logistics said:

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That's why I'm turning them down who wants to be a busy fool? Not me

Sorry if this sounds harsh M&K - but you are part of the problem in the first place.

223 mile job into central london (you mentioned congestion) and quoted £230?

That my friend is where the problem starts, unless you had a return job already prebooked and just needed to get yourself down there ? In which case please ignore.

But you have stated that you have worked for £1 or 90p per mile for the likes of those companies you mention in the original post.

Agree

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Nottingham & Derby Couriers said:

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We work on a simple system, 1. We advertise a job. 2. When an offer comes in we check out the driver. 3. Look at who is the closest for a quick collection. 4. Then look to see if the rate quoted falls within our end user quoted price range. 5. Job allocated.

It's not always about the driver cost but also the ability to service the customer in a quick and professional manner.

We sent a transit job out last week on a 25 mile drop. The driver cost was £2.00 per mile. The job needed covering urgently and that customer spends over 2k a week with us.

Yes the driver cost was high but it was 17:30 on a friday night.

£50 for a 25 mile job? Surely that's not out of the ordinary, minimum charge. ESPECIALLY on a Friday afternoon,

That's why we paid it.

Recently replied to a company who posted on CX... currently looking to expand our driver database with professional and reliable XLWB & 4m Sprinter drivers.

Get a call.. Collection 25ml way... Job 106 mls with 4 drops paying £95

Told him politely that I'll pass on that!

Was it speedyfreight by any chance, because i know they are looking for xlwb vans at the moment

:-) Yeah... I see another has posted a similar thread...

Hows it going in the Sprinter Darren, was it worth the change?

What i don't get about speedyfreight is, if one of the advantages of buying a franchise with them is having access to over 2500 members, why they're on Courier Exchange in the 1st place. £32,000 seems an awful lot of money for a Courier Exchange membership... lol

how much?!

The big one told me quotes for small van are 60p-65p. Yer right! Thats the way its going though and I cant see a see any one changing this industry anytime soon.

Think it's to get 4mtr + vans.. The package is only for lwb.. 4mtrs are too expensive.. Well there go!

Hi hsp couriers I never said anywhere id quote or do job for 90p you've read it wrong I said theyve phoned me when I've already done a job and asked me if I can do another near by wen it comes to price they said I quote we've got a luton who charges us 90p plm and they said they couldn't even pay me £1 plm so I told them to shove it my rate is 1.20 to Courier Exchange members thanks to my customers it's 1.40

PHAX said:

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Hows it going in the Sprinter Darren, was it worth the change?

I haven't stopped mate. Been a very busy week this week, so yes it was definatly worth the change. Been doing a lot of work for my own customer aswell as my regular vendors that know me, it's all good but it difficult getting £1 per mile on Courier Exchange tho. I quoted 1 today and the cheeky sod wanted me to do it for 80pplm, im no mug so I said no. Most are looking for around 90-95pplm now tho. Last year I could get quid all day long, just goes to show how these fools working for peanuts is dragging it down

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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What i don't get about speedyfreight is, if one of the advantages of buying a franchise with them is having access to over 2500 members, why they're on Courier Exchange in the 1st place. £32,000 seems an awful lot of money for a Courier Exchange membership... Lol

I had a meeting with them about a 2 weeks ago and they told me there membership, I was very shocked when he told me. They do have a lot of work and I've done some for them, but they don't like paying £1plm so they only ring me when they got no one else lol

Seems like 90p is the new pound. I did one for speedy and got £1 plm but I got the impression there won't be too many more at that rate.

Speedy freight unfortunately go into the pot with Apollo professional response I've quoted on loads of there jobs and not got one at 1.20 plm they said they try and let it go for £1.00 plm for a luton taillift so no wonder you struggle we a sprinter I also think that every dog and his grandma got a transit or sprinter it pays to have luton we taillift cos they ain't many about thank god lol

One thing to bear in mind with jobs taken from any of the exchange sites is that you are not building any relationships with the vendors. It is purely a dating agency, marriage is not on the cards. They pay what they have to pay, end of.

Andy McTighe said:

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One thing to bear in mind with jobs taken from any of the exchange sites is that you are not building any relationships with the vendors. It is purely a dating agency, marriage is not on the cards. They pay what they have to pay, end of.

Well, if you have an attitude like that it's no wonder you can't build a relationship! And, if you doubt me, ask Martin at M&K logistics.

Sorry Andy but i can't agree with you there. Sure getting the job covered is important (the date) but if i was doing a job for a vendor i'd like to think that the "relationship" was more than a "one night stand". Sure it could be, and there's a time and a place for that, but it could develop into something more. In our case, more work. Isn't that why we do jobs to the best of our ability? Whether thats for your customer, or for one of us. Either way we want repeat business, or a second date don't we? If you treat every job like a one off, not bothered either way where it will lead, then i wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't lead anywhere. Not all about attitude i grant you, but surely part of it no?

Mr Speed, I agree entirely with you and 3D. Perhaps I wasn't very clear what I meant and perhaps I haven't had a great week but I always do everything I can to expedite the work efficiently and politely. And yes I would hope that relationships are being built but when I talk to some of the controllers via C Exchange it is often like talking to an answering machine. And I do have a couple of couriers that ring me direct without posting and I have my direct customer as well. But with many of them they might enjoy talking to you but if you aren't cheapest you don't get the load, even if you have done the same job more than once and that annoys me a bit. Incidentally the description of an exchange as being like a dating agency for transporters came up in the conversation I had with the C Exchange salesman, and I think he should know.

On the rates issue, they really do pay what they have to. We can all see the constant pressure on prices and it is both frustrating and annoying but as well as being offered jobs at 70p and 75p plm I have been paid £1.50 plm by Royal Mail and £1.21 by the much maligned Expert. What we are part of is a supply and demand market that responds to market conditions minute by minute.

Luckily there are a few vendors around that actually want to pay for a quality job but most of them just want the job done for the lowest cost.

There are good controllers and there are bad controllers, just as there are good couriers and bad couriers, there are those that don't care about anything other than price, and there are those that consider service as more important than anything else. I think many of us fit somewhere inbetween, but rates have nothing to do with market forces as some would have you believe. Rates are what they are because we set them. Some are scared of charging the right amount for the service level they give, by that i mean they are giving a 1st class service at a 2nd class price. Couriers are equally doing the same. Fearful of not getting any work they reduce their prices. So whose fault are these "unbelievable rates", well i'd say its down to all of us.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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There are good controllers and there are bad controllers, just as there are good couriers and bad couriers, there are those that don't care about anything other than price, and there are those that consider service as more important than anything else. I think many of us fit somewhere inbetween, but rates have nothing to do with market forces as some would have you believe. Rates are what they are because we set them. Some are scared of charging the right amount for the service level they give, by that i mean they are giving a 1st class service at a 2nd class price. Couriers are equally doing the same. Fearful of not getting any work they reduce their prices. So whose fault are these "unbelievable rates", well i'd say its down to all of us.

Sorry Rob, but the blame lies fair and square with the driver! If they stuck to their guns and forgot about return journeys, the vendors would have no choice whatsover in paying a better rate.

I agree partly with what you say, but if it wasn't for some of the larger courier companies charging equally ridiculous rates, then perhaps we'd all be in a better place. At the end of the day though, whatever our rates are, someone will always have a gripe about them.

I'd say are absolutely right Mr Speed and I always try to give a 1st class service regardless of what price I accepted, simply because it has nothing to do with the consignor or consignee and they deserve to be treated properly.

I started in haulage with tippers in 1978 when we didn't have 'backloads' it was all point to point pricing so I never expected to be paid enough to bring a truck home empty, I'm not sure why vans should be different. It is a real quandary, if you earn, say £200 on a load that costs £100 to do and you are offered £125 for the return which more than doubles your profit it is very very hard to say no.

So, in essence I agree with everything everybody says about rates.

I think the point about backloads is that they dont actually exist. A vendor has jobs to cover. None of them are backloads. They are only backloads to the courier who is going back that way empty, and quotes accordingly.

All jobs i post are what Courier Exchange call "hotshots" or mtvan call "sameday urgent". If someone is going back that way and therefore quotes lower than normal to ensure he gets it, then that's entirely up to him. For a vendor to post a job as a backload suggests to me he's expecting cheap, and i very much doubt it's to do his customer a favour!

Its always going to be easier to get a quote accepted if you're going back that way becasue you have the ability to reduce your quote accordingly, whereas the local courier doesn't, but that is kinda what exchange sites are all about.

It's up you to get the outbound yourself, and then use exchange sites for what they were designed to do.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think the point about backloads is that they dont actually exist. A vendor has jobs to cover. None of them are backloads. They are only backloads to the courier who is going back that way empty, and quotes accordingly.

All jobs i post are what Courier Exchange call "hotshots" or mtvan call "sameday urgent". If someone is going back that way and therefore quotes lower than normal to ensure he gets it, then that's entirely up to him. For a vendor to post a job as a backload suggests to me he's expecting cheap, and i very much doubt it's to do his customer a favour!

Its always going to be easier to get a quote accepted if you're going back that way becasue you have the ability to reduce your quote accordingly, whereas the local courier doesn't, but that is kinda what exchange sites are all about.

It's up you to get the outbound yourself, and then use exchange sites for what they were designed to do.

And that is the nub of the issue. Your direct customer or courier you sub for gets you going and you decide if you need a return more or less than the time it will cost you to do it.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I think the point about backloads is that they dont actually exist. A vendor has jobs to cover. None of them are backloads. They are only backloads to the courier who is going back that way empty, and quotes accordingly.

All jobs i post are what Courier Exchange call "hotshots" or mtvan call "sameday urgent". If someone is going back that way and therefore quotes lower than normal to ensure he gets it, then that's entirely up to him. For a vendor to post a job as a backload suggests to me he's expecting cheap, and i very much doubt it's to do his customer a favour!

Its always going to be easier to get a quote accepted if you're going back that way becasue you have the ability to reduce your quote accordingly, whereas the local courier doesn't, but that is kinda what exchange sites are all about.

It's up you to get the outbound yourself, and then use exchange sites for what they were designed to do.

Absolutely agree!

Andy McTighe said:

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One thing to bear in mind with jobs taken from any of the exchange sites is that you are not building any relationships with the vendors. It is purely a dating agency, marriage is not on the cards. They pay what they have to pay, end of.

Not true. More than half my work from the exchange is booked direct now, usually for more than I ask for.

Some even advertise for backload rates only and some pay 45 days end of month that is pushing jobs to the limit and abusing decent couriers. Yes, I do not bid on these but obviously someone does. Must be companies with money to survive as I cant see many single O/D's jumping on these.

Ah the backload argument has resurfaced, it's been a while :)

I'm sat on 2 jobs in my office that need to be delivered Tuesday morning at 9am.

If I post them on here they can only be classed as sameday urgent, I don't need anyone at normal rates to do them I have my own drivers and subbies that I can use to cover these jobs. Posting them is a waste of everyones time.

If however I had the option to select 'Backload' then at least drivers would know in advance that these are not full paying jobs and therefore only quote if it fits in with what they are doing.

Now to the other argument that I'm ripping off a driver by getting a cheap price. I don't subscribe to this view I see it as mutually beneficial arrangement where both parties make more money.

The guy that did a backload to london last week was very happy with the extra £120 he made for going 3 miles out of his way, and I was happy with the extra £50 that I made.

Preston Courier Co Ltd said:

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Ah the backload argument has resurfaced, it's been a while :)

I'm sat on 2 jobs in my office that need to be delivered Tuesday morning at 9am.

If I post them on here they can only be classed as sameday urgent, I don't need anyone at normal rates to do them I have my own drivers and subbies that I can use to cover these jobs. Posting them is a waste of everyones time.

If however I had the option to select 'Backload' then at least drivers would know in advance that these are not full paying jobs and therefore only quote if it fits in with what they are doing.

Now to the other argument that I'm ripping off a driver by getting a cheap price. I don't subscribe to this view I see it as mutually beneficial arrangement where both parties make more money.

The guy that did a backload to london last week was very happy with the extra £120 he made for going 3 miles out of his way, and I was happy with the extra £50 that I made.

All very well but there are companies that post full paying jobs on the exchanges hoping to get them covered at backload rates, to make more profit, while their subbies at parked up waiting for work. Only when time dictates do they then get the subby to do them. It is probably safe to assume that at the other end of the country there are companies doing the same. The end result is that customers have become used to £1 a mile for small van jobs and are reluctant to pay more while the subby is expected to drive for 70pplm.

As said many times before, the blame for low rates is solely the drivers!
This is 'business' not a social network, the whole point of being in business is to make as much as one can, vendors can't be blamed for using the cheaper option of suitably qualified drivers [and I mean suitable] Vendors also take on the risk of the job being carried out correctly and the ceive the 'risk' of their customer 'struggling' and NOT getting paid. Also, and I speak from my corner, having to wait sometimes 2 or 3 months to be paid, even though the driver has been paid quickly.
If only existing drivers [who should know better] stuck to their required price, the end user would no longer receive the benefits of 'cheap' jobs, and would have to pay a fairer rate!
To put this into context, prices one can charge customers today is the same or in some cases lower than 20 years ago! Who is to blame? the subbie!

But no businessman with any sense would do any other than get the job done at a s low a price as possible, and use the cheapest, PROVIDING the subbie has the quality and means to represent them correctly!

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Who is to blame? the subbie!

But no businessman with any sense would do any other than get the job done at a s low a price as possible, and use the cheapest, PROVIDING the subbie has the quality and means to represent them correctly!

Very well put well said

I think the worrying thing is that it's really a vicious circle.

We've always had a culture of excellent owner driver subbies in this country. However, basic maths says it's impossible to buy, maintain and correctly insure a decent van whilst still earning a decent living at 50/60pplm which seems to be the going rate that many want to sub at on the exchanges these days.

In those circumstances, what does the poor subbie do? Inevitably he's going to try and get more end-user clients directly which then serves to drive down the price to the end users. Nobody wins but the end customer ultimately.

The days of owner drivers happy to sub contract and avoid the hassle of winning and maintaining their own direct clients is over at these rates. Everybody will be fighting for the end user client driving rates down and down and down...

Marcom Direct Ltd said:

> We've always had a culture of excellent owner driver subbies in this country.

country. yeah?

earning a decent living at 50/60pplm which seems to be the going rate

No such thing as 'going rate'

Everybody will be fighting for the end user client driving rates down and down and down...

NOT if everyone had some common sense, and refused to work for a rate that did not suit!

All right if you can afford to sit around and do nothing?

My rate to earn minimum wage equivalent is about a £1/mile. Don't know any people that will pay a subby that for a small van?

Given the job 3 years and all I've got is a van approaching the knackers yard? No money in bank and not enough confidence in the future to splash out on a decent replacement!

Given the job 3 years and all I've got is a van approaching the knackers yard? No money in bank and not enough confidence in the future to splash out on a decent replacement!

Case rested

The subbie is always at the mercy of the forwarder who will in most cases take the lions share and leave the liability's to the subbie. And make them pay for the privilege,

AM-PM Despatch said:

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All right if you can afford to sit around and do nothing?

My rate to earn minimum wage equivalent is about a £1/mile. Don't know any people that will pay a subby that for a small van?

Given the job 3 years and all I've got is a van approaching the knackers yard? No money in bank and not enough confidence in the future to splash out on a decent replacement!

So what do you do?
Reduce your rates and you are part of the problem

1x ex wife

1x current wife

5x kids

1x dog

And still find that my "RATE " is ok, Maybe I am one of the lucky ones , I like a few on these sites don't rely on the "work" that is offered,

Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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1x ex wife

1x current wife

5x kids

1x dog

And still find that my "RATE " is ok, Maybe I am one of the lucky ones , I like a few on these sites don't rely on the "work" that is offered,

What type of dog have you got?

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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AM-PM Despatch said:

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All right if you can afford to sit around and do nothing?

My rate to earn minimum wage equivalent is about a £1/mile. Don't know any people that will pay a subby that for a small van?

Given the job 3 years and all I've got is a van approaching the knackers yard? No money in bank and not enough confidence in the future to splash out on a decent replacement!

So what do you do?
Reduce your rates and you are part of the problem

I've been getting 78pplm but that isn't enough to keep a roof over my head so rather than sit around I've tried getting my own customers but sods law says when they call I'm on a job.

So instead of driving for a pittance I will be looking for contract ground maintenance work, already have one for £20/week for 1 hours work with a couple more in the pipeline. At least I'll be able to plan a life?

AM-PM Despatch said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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AM-PM Despatch said:

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All right if you can afford to sit around and do nothing?

My rate to earn minimum wage equivalent is about a £1/mile. Don't know any people that will pay a subby that for a small van?

Given the job 3 years and all I've got is a van approaching the knackers yard? No money in bank and not enough confidence in the future to splash out on a decent replacement!

So what do you do?
Reduce your rates and you are part of the problem

I've been getting 78pplm but that isn't enough to keep a roof over my head so rather than sit around I've tried getting my own customers but sods law says when they call I'm on a job.

So instead of driving for a pittance I will be looking for contract ground maintenance work, already have one for £20/week for 1 hours work with a couple more in the pipeline. At least I'll be able to plan a life?

Ifr your getting end users calling you when your out on a job, why not sub it out yourself.

You know,I don't often comment on these forums for the simple reason it just winds me up and the guys on here. WE are ALL in this to make money and not be made a monkey of. I agree with 99% of the points raised and sympathies totally with the guys struggling. It is really hard to find work AND cover jobs, I know I've been there and still struggle to get work covered, sometimes and the job rate is sometimes marginal. We are unique in our profession, if you can't provide a service to end users they are just going to go elsewhere and that's just business. I've tried to strike a balance with supply and demand ( and still dont get it right) some of the guys on here have done work for me and they know what I mean. I think a lot of it is down to a little bit if luck and being in the right place at the right time and getting to speak to the right person at a company. As has been said on here and other forums there are too many running for nowt and I can't see that improving in the near future.

People knock the likes of Shiply /uShip et all but as a secondary income this works Believe me, I know I in the last month have picked up work when the customers that I have don't have work This not only keeps turnover happening but also gives a second income that isn't reliant on courier work. Yes you have to work at it and don't fall in to the trap of biding wars with the nerdowells but I certainly don't bend on the price and make a decent living from it I don't rely on "courier" sites and have been substantially rewarded from the efforts, also the thoughts that you are only dealing with eBay tat are far in the wrong that blindness strikes most on this and other forums is true . In the last 2 months I have moved medical equipment to hospitals from major blue chip company's to samples' from manufactures and also the eBay tat but all and every one is treated the same after all they are a customer and believe it or not they pay your bills, there is a good source of income on these sites and if you work at it you can actually expand your customer base with the likes of big companies now using them for delivery's and collections the monies are there to be made and in most cases the payment is instant therefore you are not relying on payment terms of 30 days

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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1x ex wife

1x current wife

5x kids

1x dog

And still find that my "RATE " is ok, Maybe I am one of the lucky ones , I like a few on these sites don't rely on the "work" that is offered,

What type of dog have you got?

A very fierce staffy and the dogs a poodle

Just paid a subbie £84.78 per loaded mile - Mind you it was was only a 2.3 mile job with an 18 tonner and included 2 hours of waiting time after 17:00 on the friday before a bank holiday!

I don't think anyone knocks the other sites mentioned, other than to say they're not sites for traditional courier work. By that i of course refer to urgent sameday courier work. What those sites have done however, is give people the opportunity to move goods more economically then before, and give drivers another stream of income that didn't exist.

In the past no one knew you were driving to say Manchester from London, or driving back empty. Now we all do, and giving everyone access to what you are doing ensures you maximise your paid mileage. Equally by having loads listed means as a driver you get to see loads you never knew about before, and can quote/bid accordingly.

The only gripe i have are those sites that try and have every sort of work on them. I think it's confusing and is partly responsible for lowering prices. Because urgent, non urgent, overnight, removal men and moving that knackered sofa all come under the term Couriers. Add homeshoppers to the mix and is it any wonder people get confused with what we offer?

A site that concentrates on real courier work is what i believe most of us want, with members that are the right calibre.

Pemyn Courier Services said:

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Recently replied to a company who posted on CX... currently looking to expand our driver database with professional and reliable XLWB & 4m Sprinter drivers.

Get a call.. Collection 25ml way... Job 106 mls with 4 drops paying £95

Told him politely that I'll pass on that!

Well glad i've only done one job for this outfit on 15th Aug.. Was before the above job.

They stated that ... "pay weekly".

Yes still waiting.. won't be doing anymore despite them still ringing.