Are Courier Exchange checking everyones insurances?

Ligitimate Companies have nothing to fear if they carry the correct insurances in particular "Hire & Reward".

I have heard so many times that couriers are flouting laws by just getting the GIT particularly European drivers/companies and owner drivers.

Long over due to get rid and that way perhaps it'll be fair prices on the loaded miles ect...

Courier Exchange works well, but it really needs to do more vigorous checks on our European Neighbour's and UK operators.

What do you think?

I can state for a fact that they are NOT actually checking the insurance policies.

Scott.

That is to say that only certain organisations have the right to this kind of information such as the police. A business such as Courier Exchange have no rights to call and ask for verification of any particular courier drivers current policy.

If they did call and try to check then the insurance company would/should politely decline to answer.

Scott.

This would also apply to the rest of the exchanges too then...

Just to be clear about our position on this.

We don't think we should police people's insurances, and certainly not demand to see them.

However, we see it as a very important part of our role to promote trust between members.

We therefore see it as our role to provide the best possible online tools to enable everyone to see who is insured and who is not, and help them make a decision whether to deal or not to deal.

This goes back to the pre-internet days basics of this industry:

"Got any work?".

"Yes, got any insurance?"

"Yes, here's my certificate."

"Thank you, here's a job for you".

To record your insurance on mtvan, start here: www.mtvan.com/account/insurance-details

Your insurance status is already shown on your own Profile Page for all to see, and will soon be shown on search results on the mtvan directory, along with links to your documents etc, so if you care what people think of your business, it's worth spending 5 minutes updating your insurance status.

The only true way to ensure that everyone has the correct insurance is either to be part of an orgnisation that insists on seeing this info before you can join, or ask them for it before you give them a job.

Pre internet we simply asked to see both Insurance and GIT policies, without which you couldn't join us.

As i stated in a previous thread, I have used over 800 drivers since Sept 2008 (since changing to a new software package), some just the once, some many many times, and when I have a job to cover I need it doing NOW, so have not the time or inclination to ask them to email me a copy first... And thats assuming that particualr courier is at home, which as we all know is rarely the case.

Which is why both I and many others rely on exchange sites to ask for the relevant paperwork before joining

The fact that they don't suggests that this problem can only get worse

The purpose of the tools we are about to launch on mtvan is to make it possible to check someone's insurance details at the click of a mouse.

If they have no insurance on file with mtvan, there is already a red flag on the Profile Page you are using to contact them.

So we are using the risk of appearing to be uninsured (or unable to be bothered to add insurance details on a website used by people looking for couriers to cover their work) to pressurise people into uploading their insurance details. If that isn't enough pressure, what is?

That is going as far as is practical, in our opinion. We don't believe there's a role for us in policing it.

mtvan.com Ltd said:

---

Just to be clear about our position on this.

We don't think we should police people's insurances, and certainly not demand to see them.

However, we see it as a very important part of our role to promote trust between members.

We therefore see it as our role to provide the best possible online tools to enable everyone to see who is insured and who is not, and help them make a decision whether to deal or not to deal.

This goes back to the pre-internet days basics of this industry:

"Got any work?".

"Yes, got any insurance?"

"Yes, here's my certificate."

"Thank you, here's a job for you".

To record your insurance on mtvan, start here: www.mtvan.com/account/insurance-details

Your insurance status is already shown on your own Profile Page for all to see, and will soon be shown on search results on the mtvan directory, along with links to your documents etc, so if you care what people think of your business, it's worth spending 5 minutes updating your insurance status.

"We don't think we should police people's insurances, and certainly not demand to see them."

You can't!

You can only perform what is known as "Due dilligence!" and ask for such details to be supplied. Document that the required information was supplied and store it.

And yes, this does indeed go for all other exchanges.

They can't actually check that your insurance is valid.

Scott.

They can do as we all do with any driver we take on, and that is ask to see the relevant documentation

No documentation means no membership

The fact they don't suggests more a liking for the membership fee, than the membership bonafideness (not sure if thats a word but you get the idea)

No, Rob, it's not the fees.

The first reason is that most people turn up here a little hesitantly, wanting to check out who we are and what we do, and who else is on here, before fully committing. Just browsin', thanks. If the first thing that happens to them on arrival is a demand for insurance documents, we feel it's likely to put many potentially good people off.

The second reason is WE have no power, no leverage, to compel people to comply. Especially in the first moments of membership. It's YOU, the vendor, who have that leverage, that power. But that only comes later, when they see the job alerts, when they get the phone calls, ie when you're offering them work.

Right now you can see how we are creating an environment where no-insurance-on-file means lots of big red marks next to the member's name, and where eventually a member with no insurance on file probably won't even show up in most people's search results, as YOU will be able to set the directory to filter them out. Possibly even you'll be able to set no insurance = no alerts on your work.

So rather than put in place an impractical system that will put most people off, we're putting a system in place that will help you see quickly whether people are insured, and that eventually will let you use the site without even knowing that there are people on there who choose to appear to be uninsured. Because you won't ever see them.

Hope this seems well thought out, even if you'd do it differently.

All the best

Tim

Hi Tim,

I just wanted to add in that my earlier comments were not in any way intended to be a dig or an insult to you personally or to mtvan!

I just read them over and think that the wording could have made them sound this way!

I was only pointing out that exchanges such as mtvan and courier exchange, and also courier companies who are using subbies can only perform the due diligence of asking for copies of a subbies relevant documentation. There is however no way that an exchange site or courier company could absolutely verify that the documentation provided is correct!

I personally feel that they way you are currently operating it here on mtvan is a very simple, fair and excellent implimentation.

Scott.

Hi Scott

No worries, I welcome your point of view, especially as I agree with it. :)

Tim

I just felt that after re-reading my comments they may have come across as a little aggressive.

Note to self! Don't post on websites once home from the pub. :-).

Scott.

A bit of chocolate tonguing going on here...If you ever go into politics you'll go far... Well up the u bend... lol

I don't think anything we say is meant to be personal to any particular exchange site is it?

Are we not all just voicing opinions?

Some good, some bad... Tiz what a forum is there for, you read, you listen, you take from it what you want

After reading the heading there is a small exchange which personally checks Insurance, it is low cost, well run and reliable, yes Shed5, basically if you don't have GIT your don't become a member simple as that, plus the advantage of knowing no crooks and alike wont be able to join after vigorous checks by the owner, so no chance of non payment.

I know Tim has the provisions for folk to upload there Insurance, but cannot force folk to upload, so then that's down to the Vendor to check relevant Insurance if not showing. But in the nature of urgent collection/delivery this can be a headache.

I cannot comment on any other exchanges as I'm not a member, nor wish to be. At least with Shed5 you get peace of mind, I'm not promoting Shed5 but Mike has got it right and membership is growing.

[Admin: It's double return for a new paragraph, check the preview below the editor :) ]

I'm sayin nothing

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

---

A bit of chocolate tonguing going on here...If you ever go into politics you'll go far... Well up the u bend... lol

I don't think anything we say is meant to be personal to any particular exchange site is it?

Are we not all just voicing opinions?

Some good, some bad... Tiz what a forum is there for, you read, you listen, you take from it what you want

Hey Rob, come on! I think you know that I am not one for chocolate tounguing! I just wanted to ensure that my comment wasn't taken as any kind of personal criticism!

Scott.

Only jesting Scott (schlurp)

Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:

---

After reading the heading there is a small exchange which personally checks Insurance, it is low cost, well run and reliable, yes Shed5, basically if you don't have GIT your don't become a member simple as that, plus the advantage of knowing no crooks and alike wont be able to join after vigorous checks by the owner, so no chance of non payment.

I know Tim has the provisions for folk to upload there Insurance, but cannot force folk to upload, so then that's down to the Vendor to check relevant Insurance if not showing. But in the nature of urgent collection/delivery this can be a headache.

I cannot comment on any other exchanges as I'm not a member, nor wish to be. At least with Shed5 you get peace of mind, I'm not promoting Shed5 but Mike has got it right and membership is growing..

Sorry to burst your bubble Gas.

They may well ask to see your GIT insurance, but they have no way of verifying it!

All of the exchange sites ask you to post / fax or email a copy of your GIT / Hire and Reward insurance.

Once you do that, then Bob's your uncle. No further checks, because they can't check any further!

I am only putting this out as I know for a fact that there are at least 3 subbies on Courier Exchange who are using doctored certificates.

That is to say that they have taken the pdf policy that was emailed to them officially by the insurance company and after that, year upon year, they have just altered that same document to reflect different dates.

So once again, I will re-iterate, with regards to the original question of this topic, which was:

Are Courier Exchange checking everyones insurances?

No they are not! Neither is any other exchange be it Mtvan, Shed5 et al!

Why?

Because they can not! They have no legal right to verify the validity of the policy of any driver on the road!

The only people who can "check" your insurance are the authorities or your own insurance company in the event that you have had an accident with the driver in question!

In the end, NO they are not CHECKING! They are simply performing due dilligence and asking that each member supplies the required information.

However they are (and I am referring specifically to Courier Exchange here) inferring that they are "checking".

That tells me all I need to know, and also why I did not renew my membership after the first 6 months!

Scott.

Shed 5....small exchange, and there is the problem in a nutshell It may well ensure everyone has the relevant papaerwork, but can it cover the work?

The bigger the site, the less time you have to check stuff out, unless you employ people to do it, which means higher costs to the members... So what do you want?

Seems a lot of shed 5-ers are here

That's what I'm getting at Rob!

Courier exchange charges the bloody earth based on the premise that you get access to companies and subbies who are "verified" when in reality, they can't possibly verify any of it.

As for the Shed5'rs, I can't comment other that to say that I bumped into the site a couple of years ago and it was so unimpressive I didn't bother with it.

Scott.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

---

Only jesting Scott (schlurp)

It was gentlemanly of you to "schlurp" my chocolate though :-)

Scott.

Fair comment to your post Scott, I agree about the dodgy certs that they can be altered, not sure about pdf certs being altered though? unless there a programme that can alter these, but Im not a crook so wouldnt know, I know pdf wont allow me to alter the document, I have tried in the past after reviewing for mistakes to alter pdf Invoices before sending.

Rob Everybody has there own opinion about different exchanges, and I suppose shed as small as it is, may not be suitable for the larger business's who want work covering every hour of the day unlike the bigger exchanges, but as said before shed weeds out the crooks, and Mike does his best to check the insurance, I feel shed has a personal feel, I have certainly helped out and been helped out, when jobs needed covering by mbrs.

Its another exchange that probably could be used as a backup, dont knock it until you've tried it. Yes there are mbrs from Shed on MTV, and visa versa.

Its not all about the exchange, the forum has its banter, and soon will have a few new additions to the site.

Not forgetting its low cost, and its another bow to your string, For networking. :-)

Not knocking it, jst saying it's not one that'd work for me, that's all The success of any exchange site is down to the ability to cover any job quickly with quality drivers, in an easy and straightforward manner.

All one's mentioned have their good and bad points, so ya takes a view and makes ya choices

Digital documents can always be altered Gas!

Just run a search for "free pdf editor"!

You'll find plenty!

Scott.

The person who started this thread want's shooting, it's so uninteresting.

Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:

---

...(referring to Shed5) basically if you dont have GIT your dont become a member simple as that...

Does Shed5 re-check GIT every year? Also for info, do they provide an image of a GIT certificate/receipt for other members to check out?

AJM sameday Couriers said:

---

The person who started this thread want's shooting, it's so uninteresting.

It's a great thread. :)

Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:

---

After reading the heading there is a small exchange which personally checks Insurance, it is low cost, well run and reliable, yes Shed5, basically if you don't have GIT your don't become a member simple as that, plus the advantage of knowing no crooks and alike wont be able to join after vigorous checks by the owner, so no chance of non payment.

I know Tim has the provisions for folk to upload there Insurance, but cannot force folk to upload, so then that's down to the Vendor to check relevant Insurance if not showing. But in the nature of urgent collection/delivery this can be a headache.

I cannot comment on any other exchanges as I'm not a member, nor wish to be. At least with Shed5 you get peace of mind, I'm not promoting Shed5 but Mike has got it right and membership is growing.

[Admin: It's double return for a new paragraph, check the preview below the editor :) ]

I'm afraid you are wrong on a few points there ,although having been a member of shed since 2008 I must admit it is one of the best around ,crooks there have been a few on shed ,non payers I myself fell victim to one on shed ,so really your comments are way off the mark I'm afraid,Les