Unlucky, or have I done something wrong?

A month ago I agreed in advance to do a non-urgent delivery from London to the Outer Hebrides, (where I've just arrived). I had to give a cheap price if I was going to get the job at all, and I thought that so long as it would cover my fuel, I could work in other journeys en route to make it profitable. At this time of year I assumed that that wouldn't be a problem, and with a month to go, I thought there was time for some other's non-urgent ones to crop up too. But not a dicky bird...

I made the most of the mtvan directory and phoned or texted about 40 different local courier companies and ODs, as I was going along, to ask if they had any work I could cover. Although some of them replied, and I had a few friendly chats and swapped contact info, no one actually had any work to offer me. (One guy had a parcel going north, but by the time he had replied to my text I was too far away.)

I also have 'live tracking' on CX, so I get immediately notified by email of any jobs wherever I am. But although I got quite a few notifications, all were either 1) for jobs going South, or 2) required more space than I had left.

I'm heading back to Norfolk next week, probably leaving on Tuesday, and unless I get at least one good load, I'm going to make a nasty loss on this trip.

I understand that I'm still quite fresh in this industry, and haven't been going long enough to build up strong relationships with courier companies. But is that the only reason? was it fair to expect that more work would turn up, or was it a bit reckless of me?

If any of you had made the same trip, would you have expected to find work en route?

I once did a job to Croatia, I had two weeks notice of the job, I hired a sprinter it was back in 2004, I then joined every forum on croatia and let them know my intentions, I got an extra two other jobs on the same van, and the following year I got a job of the same forum to Corfu, you need to let people know who either live there or who have family there, the Outer Hebrides is pretty remote and the chances of a courier having something for you within you timescale is slim.

Well granted, I wasn't expecting a load between Glasgow and the Outer Hebrides, but I was expecting something between Norfolk - London - Glasgow. The drivers I notified were mostly along the Birmingham - Glasgow leg, which is where I was yesterday morning.)

One thing I did NOT do, was register my journey in advance on mtvan. Maybe I should have.

( Croatia's lovely btw. Went on holiday there a couple of years ago and discovered a totally derelict fortified village from the middle ages, in the middle of nowhere and trees growing all over it. )

That is the problem in quoting too low !

The guy who gave you the job will no doubt be happy!

I can't believe anyone would entertain doing a job if they were not going to make a decent profit, and have enough in the job in the first place to cover the trip home empty.

To answer your question, NO I would NOT have EXPECTED to find work en route!

I am afraid I have little sympathy but good luck in trying to salvage something out of a bad job on the way home.

I have also received contrary advice on mtvan (although admittedly, no one has told me to quote so low that I make a loss!). Obviously it's a gamble, and I understand it's my own tough luck if it doesn't pay off. I needed to make a trip here anyway for family reasons, hence quoting too low. If I'd quoted 10% higher, the customer would have gone with another courier (already lined up) and I would have to find the money for the whole trip out of my own pocket, so it has still been worth doing. But I was hoping to make some money out of it none the less.

Finger crossed it'll work out better on the trip south.

I did a bit of courier work about 6yrs back and I always had either myself or the missus constantly calling local companies to where my van was or going to. I could've worked around the clock if I had managed it right. However we started a family and the trade was too much to handle. I went back to my trade as a fabricator welder and now wanting to come back. You can always get a job if you put the effort in. Keep calling couriers and haulage

Try Rico logistics in Bellshill near Glasgow. I used to work for them years ago and i know they do occasional jobs to and from the Hebrides. (Worth a try)... phone +441698840060.

Thanks Bob, I'll call them. (Like their website)

Whereabouts did you go as I used to run to Stornoway and N Uist from Ullapool and other ports locally?

I don't think you've done anyhting wrong, in fact as you needed to go up there anyway i think you did pretty well getting paid to do a personal run...something one contributor to this thread seems to have failed to acknowledge...the sad fact is Theo, that sometimes it just doesn't work out.

I've known of plenty that take a job on at a lower rate, just to get them moving, then they look for co loads, backloads, loads from where the're due to drop as perhaps where they're based is a particularly bad area, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Sitting waiting for the right job at the right price is all very well, but sometimes, just sometimes mind, it's worth taking a punt.

Yes Rob, that's exactly my scenario. Sitting in rural Norfolk waiting for a well priced job hasn't worked well enough. So I'm practising making 'punts' profitable... As long as I get something on the way down I'll make a (small) profit. With any luck a bloke in Norwich will decide he wants a fresh Atlantic kipper for his tea, and give me a ring...

Moray, I stay on Harris and my delivery is to Vatisker on Lewis, which I'll be making on Saturday as my customer isn't around tomorrow. Do you get much work up here? There seems to be quite a shortage of ODs.

(Or maybe I need to go for the more direct approach, and start ringing the Godless of Norwich asking if they want a fresh kipper)

Theo, you didn't mention that you 'needed to make the trip anyway for family reasons' until after I had replied to you! [something one contributor to this thread seems to have failed to acknowledge..]

My reply would have been somewhat different if I had realised you HAD to make the trip anyway. I think if you have made something already, even if it just covers fuel you have got a positive result.

If you have a couple of days in that beautiful area befiore heading back, try calling Hebrides Haulage [depots in Glasgow, Stornaway and Kyle of Lochalsh] or maybe Capital Carriers [Stornaway] and hopefully they might have something suitable. Might also be worth doing what AJM mentioned, in looking on the local forums or local classified ads.

Enjoy the Islands, I'm envious as it is not till April until my next vacation on the Isle of Harris.

Good luck!

Theo,

Give Pronto a bell on the way home. They cover Scotland quite well and they might have something for you.

Thanks Rapid, it is an wonderful place which I've always been very close to. Sorry I wasn't clear in my first post. I come here quite a lot anyway, so I'm wondering whether it could be a profitable journey on a more regular basis. I think it depends entirely on having a full van and a backload to make decent profit - especially when you factor in the ferry costs. Not impossible to make it profitable though, I think. Just hard.

I'll give Heb Haulage and Capital a ring - and thanks Stuart, I'll try Pronto too (I tried them on the way up).

I'll also resort to the hateful alternatives: uship / anyvan / shiply etc...

Theo, I haven't done the islands by road yet. I did a few cargoes with the ship to Stornoway mainly but also Killan on N Uist (where I managed to knock over a lamppost with the flair of the bow!!) Coal or road salt to Stornoway but a lot of building materials to other places over there. On your way back get some Macleods black pudding .... lurrrverly grub !

Never quote unless you are going to make money or at least break even. Loosing money will soon see your van run into the ground and you sitting on the side of a motorway wondering how much we will charge to get you towed back home, We charge 2 ways for every recovery so if we get a return its a megga bonus.

Hey Camvan. Please understand that I am not writing this to insult or berate you, but you were not unlucky, you did do something wrong.

Never ever quote a job cheap in the hope of picking up other jobs on the way.

Whatever job you leave home for has to pay for your fuel (there and back), plus your time ( whatever you value your time at) and then a little bit on top for all your associated wear and tear, insurance costs etc.

Work this way and you will never have a wasted journey, and any extra along the way is a bonus.

PS: Don't even turn the key if you are just going to break even as suggested by others.

Peter, he had to go anyway! so at least so far he has got some money for a trip he has had to do!

My 1st post before Theo added that he HAD to go there, is in agreeance with you however :)

Previously I only read your first post and not the rest of the thread. Now realising that you were going there anyway, regardless, this means that you are not making a loss at all. Since you had to go there you have had something paid for a journey you would have done anyway.

However, for the future.

A) My first post still applies.

B) Look for back loads from where you are returning from.

C) Look for things from your destination that people in your home location might want.

eg: I delivered to Glasgow airport last Saturday (My birthplace) and brought 20 kilos of Lorne sausage (square sausage to most of you guys), loads of potato scones and scottish black pudding back to Manchester where I now live.

All sold out within 3 hours at a handsome profit.

Peter Riley said:

PS: Don't even turn the key if you are just going to break even as suggested by others.

But surely that goes towards paying for your fixed costs and spreading them out thus reducing your overall ppm.

Well if you want to work for nothing, go right ahead.

Speed Couriers (Stansted Airport) said:

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Like!

This is an interesting topic, and it reveals everybody's different approach to doing business.

Peter, I know you're not being insulting! I'm inclined to think that for the established guys & gals with lots of experience and contacts, and who live in more populous areas, you might find it more sensible than me to be strict about only going out the door when you know you're going to make a good profit. But as I'm still quite new and still building up customers and contacts, sometimes I think I need to take more risks. I haven't got into the habit of it yet - this was just an experiment.

Anyway, I've found a lady on uship who needs to move house to England next week. If all her stuff will fit in the van I can undercut the competition and make a decent profit, but uship being what it is I can't contact her directly. Grr!!

You'll need f*** off big wheels to move a house

lol. I'm often surprised what you can fit in a swb transit.

Just keep on calling the courier companies local to you. Eventually you will find one looking for a regular subbie. Just don't ever sell yourself short. There is nothing more demoralising than returning home and working out that you have spent all day working for minimum wage or less. That completely defeats the point of being self employed.

Where did you sell your sausage? I'm in Glasgow next week and may take a punt too . I know a fair amount of "jocks" who would love a bit of real Lorne and black pudding

Doh!!! MY post sounds like a script from a carry on film ! To correct: I know some Scottish folks who would appreciate a taste of home

Quite dodgy moving meat products several hours unchilled

Ive said this befor ... Cool Box

Get a cool box MrG. Freeze a couple of bottles tap water. Stick em in your cool box at the start of your journey. Dont forget to plug in your cool box... And you'll find your Meat and Tatties will stay fresh all the way home. And you could allways keep your spam butties cool on the way up. Along with your Pukka pies.

My van is a cool-box at this time of year mr sexi !

Hey Mr G. I use Curleys on Hamilton Road, Halfway, Cambuslang. G72 7PH.

Do yourself a favour and call up a day or two before if you are going to take a job lot.

Most of it was sold straight to friends and family, the rest went to people who'd heard about it from them. Only one of whom was Scots. The English love it as well. You can get them at some Aldis and places like that but it's nowhere near the quality of proper steak lorne.

For my breakfast today I had a slice of true Scots Lorne sausage (along with Stornoway black pud etc.) but it was left a wee bit too long in the frying pan and turned out like a miniature Welsh roofing slate !!

I was up in Glasgow today ~ had a deep fried haggis and chips.... :-D

Wot !! no deep fried mars bar for a desert ? you aint lived yet :)

I'm on a diet. LOL..

Is it me or do most posts on topics end up talking about food or the quality of supermarket diesel. I'm just waiting for Rob to post a picture of what he had for breakfast this morning!

Supermarket cafe or supermarket fuel ... both taste about the same, and no it's not you. (I've had to go hungry this morning .... wife got called into work on her day off !!)

on the grounds of good taste and possible repurcussions I have decided not to show you what I had for breakfast this mornin

I had these...

Scott Garner said:

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Peter Riley said:

PS: Don't even turn the key if you are just going to break even as suggested by others.

But surely that goes towards paying for your fixed costs and spreading them out thus reducing your overall ppm.

Peter Riley said:

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Well if you want to work for nothing, go right ahead.

Whilst I partly agree that working for nothing is a bad idea, surely breaking even is better than making a loss.

Unless you have PAYG fixed costs (bit of a contradiction in terms) like insurance and RFL , you are surely at a loss by not turning the key at all.

eg If your insurance is £365 per year (for easy sums) that's £1 per day. If you sell £1 today you have covered your insurance cost even if you've earned no profit. If you stay at home today you sell £0, so tomorrow you need to sell £2 just to cover todays insurance (at a loss of £1) and tomorrows insurance.

Hi Scott.

Many of us have covered jobs at low prices "just to cover costs" as you describe in the hope that once we have "proven ourselves" we'll be able to command a higher and fairer rate.

It doesn't work! Once you begin doing work for someone at "x" rate, they expect you to continue at that rate and trying to raise it will only lose you their business.

We did this for a few months during our first year (last year). We quickly experienced the utter pain and desperation that comes with working a full, long, hard working day driving in the cold pelting rain, howling winds and pitch black of night for 12 hours straight only to get home the next day and realise that we could have earned more working part time stacking shelves in a small privately owned corner store.

That's demoralisation in the truest sense of the word.

Charge a low rate in order to "get the business in" and there are plenty of companies out there that will just take the piss.

Charge a realistic rate for your service and your clients will both respect and trust you all the more.

Any company that is not willing to pay a reasonable price for your efforts is not worth working for! They will continually move from the cheapest subbie to the next cheapest subbie with no loyalty whatsoever!

If you ever get back to base and have earned less than minimum wage, or worse still nothing. Then self employment is not for you!

If you ever get back to base and find you've made a loss, sell your van immediately.

This is my true experience of my first year and a half of being a courier.

Best regards,

Scott and Peter.

I think Scott has a refreshingly positive way of looking at things.

Never assume cos we've been in this industry for as long as we have, that we know what we're talking about....sometimes new blood can see the wood for the trees, whereas some of us have our faces stuck in the bark!!!