Payment terms

If you have payment terms which differ from the norm (ie 30 days) please tell the person offering you work at the time of booking. I haven't got that much of a problem paying someone quickly but the price you offer needs to reflect this.

Three months in arrears tony

But its £10 plm :-)

Which is exactly what I suggested in a previous thread

If a vendor wants a lower quote, the easiest way of negotiating downwards is to pay quicker.

We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Which is exactly what I suggested in a previous thread

If a vendor wants a lower quote, the easiest way of negotiating downwards is to pay quicker.

We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

Oh dear, such such a doubting Thomas! You would find something to pick at whether I paid in 60 days, 7 days or even 1 day.

Offering a quick payment is nothing more than a gesture of goodwill, I'm sure most will see it this way.

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Which is exactly what I suggested in a previous thread

If a vendor wants a lower quote, the easiest way of negotiating downwards is to pay quicker.

We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

Oh dear, such such a doubting Thomas! You would find something to pick at whether I paid in 60 days, 7 days or even 1 day.

Offering a quick payment is nothing more than a gesture of goodwill, I'm sure most will see it this way.

Perhaps it is a way of justifying paying less, but i don't personally have a problem with that. As has been said on another thread recently, it's good business sense to have your money in your account as long as possible, whether incoming or outgoing, so a driver can attach a monetary value to that convenience and consider negotiating downwards accordingly.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

We have and always will pay subbies as soon as the invoice and pod arrives.

Regular drivers invoice us at the weekend for the previous 7 days and get paid Monday.

We DO NOT do it to get cheaper rates, we do it because

A: We want good, reliable drivers who answer the phone when we call and are happy to work for us

B: Interest rates are so pathetic, even hanging onto a £100,000 bill for 90 days gets you about £10, so it's absolutely pointless making the driver wait over a £100 bill.

So it's for BOTH of our benefits

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Which is exactly what I suggested in a previous thread

If a vendor wants a lower quote, the easiest way of negotiating downwards is to pay quicker.

We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

As we have discussed before Rob, this is complete and utter rubbish, and you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

Preston Courier Co Ltd said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

We have and always will pay subbies as soon as the invoice and pod arrives.

Regular drivers invoice us at the weekend for the previous 7 days and get paid Monday.

We DO NOT do it to get cheaper rates, we do it because

A: We want good, reliable drivers who answer the phone when we call and are happy to work for us

B: Interest rates are so pathetic, even hanging onto a £100,000 bill for 90 days gets you about £10, so it's absolutely pointless making the driver wait over a £100 bill.

So it's for BOTH of our benefits

HSP Couriers said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Which is exactly what I suggested in a previous thread

If a vendor wants a lower quote, the easiest way of negotiating downwards is to pay quicker.

We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

As we have discussed before Rob, this is complete and utter rubbish, and you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

Sorry I have to agree with both above replies

As a good will gesture I like to keep people sweet and if it means that we pay early then fine, but its not reduced at all, (I dont reduce my clients payments if they pay early) if I have arranged something like with a client I dont pass it on to the subbie thats solely down to me, and have to absorb the small loss.

In fact Ive just subbed one out, and with the rider coming back to me he said how much, so I gave him a figure and said sod it round it off to the nearest tenner mark ie if its 37.50 then invoice for £40, Ive still made on it. And he's happy, knowing he's made a couple of extra quid and might be paid this afters..

Well I can beat you all I have paid people who I know on the very same day even before the job has been complted, beat that if you can..

Paid several people before the jobs even complete, its not unheard of. In fact last week was one - Alan from AB Couriers - paid him for a job to Glasgow before he even collected the load. The whole point of the post was not for pats on the back, or for input in regards to paying on 7 days or 30 days but purely on the basis that not everybody who pays on receipt of invoice / 7 days are after cheap prices because they issue payment quickly. I know we certainly don't and know of several other companies who operate in this way who I personally wouldn't have any problem working for as its on our rates basis. NOT on the fact of how quick they pay. However someone who pays on net 60 or 45eom etc we probably wouldn't entertain anyway.

Sorry if you see my thread as tarring everyone with the same brush, I'm not, my thread is specifically aimed at those who are finding it increasingly difficult to cover work at the rates they want, so are toying with a 7 day payment term as a tool to negotaite downwards

I know of drivers that have offered lower rates for quicker payment, so it seems obvious for some to use this as a way of getting the rates they want, or nearer to the rates they want.

Call me a cynic if you want, but I very much doubt anyone would change from 30 day to 7 day purely as a gesture of goodwill, unless they had to.

Also worth noting that I pay my drivers weekly but that's cos I always have

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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my thread is specifically aimed at those who are finding it increasingly difficult to cover work at the rates they want, so are toying with a 7 day payment term as a tool to negotaite downwards

As this does not apply to us, I can only apologise for my assumption. Have no problem in covering work and @ Decent rates too.

Rob - would be interested to know who you think is having difficulty in covering their work at cheap prices so therefore offer quick payment terms.

Probably best you don't put it on here though mate as knowing your luck this will be another locked topic and no longer open for further discussion! :-)

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Sorry if you see my thread as tarring everyone with the same brush, I'm not, my thread is specifically aimed at those who are finding it increasingly difficult to cover work at the rates they want, so are toying with a 7 day payment term as a tool to negotaite downwards

I know what your saying Rob, and I understand, I agree with HSP

HSP Couriers said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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my thread is specifically aimed at those who are finding it increasingly difficult to cover work at the rates they want, so are toying with a 7 day payment term as a tool to negotaite downwards

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As this does not apply to us, I can only apologise for my assumption. Have no problem in covering work and @ Decent rates too.

Rob - would be interested to know who you think is having difficulty in covering their work at cheap prices so therefore offer quick payment terms.

Probably best you don't put it on here though mate as knowing your luck this will be another locked topic and no longer open for further discussion! :-)

We are not having any difficulty covering work either, in fact just had 3 mtvan quotes on an XLWB job, from Sheffielld to Newport - so no problems on that front.

However, I would also be interested in knowing who Speed is referring to? :o)

We ourselves are looking to move to 7 days terms, as the second most frequently asked question, that couriers ask us prior to joining is.... How quickly would i get paid?

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Also worth noting that I pay my drivers weekly but that's cos I always have

Is that weekly on 7 day terms?

or do you pay 30 day invoices that are due once a week?

7 days weekly but like I said Andrew, i've always done it

I'm afraid forum rules don't allow me to be more specific as to who I'm referring to Andrew :0)

I think I can work it out, however the as the same rules apply to me, I can't say anything either :o)

Preston Courier Co Ltd said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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We all know it, so someone coming along offering 7 days is doing it for a reason, and it won't be for the benefit of the poor Courier continually having to chase payments to those paying 30 days.

It's a gimmick, you know it, I know it, we all know it... So lets stop pretending otherwise

A USP it is not

We have and always will pay subbies as soon as the invoice and pod arrives.

Regular drivers invoice us at the weekend for the previous 7 days and get paid Monday.

We DO NOT do it to get cheaper rates, we do it because

A: We want good, reliable drivers who answer the phone when we call and are happy to work for us

B: Interest rates are so pathetic, even hanging onto a £100,000 bill for 90 days gets you about £10, so it's absolutely pointless making the driver wait over a £100 bill.

So it's for BOTH of our benefits

That's a refreshing attitude.

Here here

You really are quite unique Andrew... lol

Very politely put, your etiquette is definitely improving :o)

Blimey Andrew, you're coming out with big words now... Are we worthy oh esteemed one

And i even managed to spell correctly this time, lol

What’s your USP?

Our unique national network of our own vetted drivers. Many of our direct competitors rely on freight exchanges to cover most or all of their work, so having our very own network makes us quite unique, giving us far greater control over the service provided to our customers. We have certainly ruffled a few feathers in the industry, as we have taken business away from those who have been relying on freight exchanges alone. I think customer like and appreciate our unique proposition.

What are the key elements for achieving a positive customer service experience?

Automation and communication. Our automated communication process, keeps the customer informed at each stage of the booking, collection and delivery process.

Are you actively looking to expand your operations?

We are looking to firm up our mainland UK operation and concentrate on improving what we already do, rather than trying to conquer new markets. We are looking for more couriers to be part of our national courier network, to satisfy growing demand for our service.

What challenges does your business face on an on-going basis?

One of our biggest challenges is courier recruitment, we do have gaps in our network, which are currently filled by independent contractors. We need more of our own couriers to complete our UK network. Our other main challenge is dealing with negativity from direct competitors who have seen us do things differently, and rather than improving their own businesses to compete, would rather use negative tactics. Anyway, it’s a good problem to have

Oh I see you have been busy doing your homework? lol

58 jobs posted since the 14th using a freight exchange, so much for your USP

Using drivers with No GIT

Allowing drivers to use their cars or MPV's without proper insurance

Selling areas on the promise of work without any traffic profile of any area you're selling

Charging extra for GIT over £500 when this should be part and parcel of any quote given

Using an exchange site to recruit drivers for your own network is one thing, but for that exchange site to allow it, and to gag anyone that has anything to say about it is quite incredible

It is you and people like you that have "dumbed down" our industry and enabled the uninsured drivers with no experience wotsoever to come into the industry, with no GIT cover, and no van

And to cap it all, you wear Brown shoes with a suit!

I don't think this is the point of this thread, however.....

If anyone liked Speed's little extract and would like to read the rest of my interview with The Delivery Magazine, here it is:

http://courier-direct.co.uk/news/index.php/one-2-one-with-andy-stephens-shepherd-at-courier-expert/

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Using drivers with No GIT

Selling areas on the promise of work without any traffic profile of any area you're selling

Charging extra for GIT over £500 when this should be part and parcel of any quote given

And to cap it all, you wear Brown shoes with a suit!

Driver's do actually have GIT, as we are providing it for them.

We dot not sell areas nor make any promises

I can charge what I like for insurance, it's a free market

What's wrong with brown shoes?

CCC paid a new Courier Half on collection and half upon delivery last week, we did this as a gesture of trust our my company. We normally pay on thirty days... We also help new couriers get through the first month with advances for fuel.

Would you rather be busy at say £0.65ppm with full paid double ups & 50% returns... Or... A few jobs a week at £0.80 ripped off on double ups and 25% returns plus dodgy mileages... Discuss.

Courier Expert said:

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I can charge what I like for insurance, it's a free market

Am I right in thinking that you can't put it like that? Don't you have to be regulated to sell insurance.

Courier Expert said:

Driver's do actually have GIT, as we are providing it for them.

I can charge what I like for insurance, it's a free market

Unless you registered some may argue that what your doing is completely wrong in charging seperately for Insurance?

Just to point out that the FSA and Insurance governing body would be interested if this is the case..

It would appear that there is an echo in here and it's cleverly adding substantiating facts!

Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:

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Courier Expert said:

Driver's do actually have GIT, as we are providing it for them.

I can charge what I like for insurance, it's a free market

Unless you registered some may argue that what your doing is completely wrong in charging seperately for Insurance?

Just to point out that the FSA and Insurance governing body would be interested if this is the case..

There are currently only two "Courier" (Loosely used term given present company) companies registered with the FSA to be able to offer additional insurance DHL & Royal mail

MK Bikes said:

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Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:

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Courier Expert said:

Driver's do actually have GIT, as we are providing it for them.

I can charge what I like for insurance, it's a free market

Unless you registered some may argue that what your doing is completely wrong in charging seperately for Insurance?

Just to point out that the FSA and Insurance governing body would be interested if this is the case..

There are currently only two "Courier" (Loosely used term given present company) companies registered with the FSA to be able to offer additional insurance DHL & Royal mail

Now theres 3 it seems. Im sure the ABI and FOS would probably be interested. Plus the tax man as well...

Not forgetting the IFB and PIFED.

What about the EBC

It was deregulated in 2009. In case anyone missed it, here is the government documentation:

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/consult_forwardingfreightinsurance120209.pdf

In before the lock!

This scant regard for even the most basic level of what it is that makes a courier a courier and not merely someone driving around in their car is exactly what i refer to when i say this kind of approach is dumbng down our industry. Ruffle feathers it most certianly does, not because you've hit on a winning formula, but because you just don't see (or care) that what you are doing, or trying to do, is exactly what is killing this industry. Those that pay for courier insurance, for their VAN, and get GIT for that van can feel justifyingly peeved at those that target people with cars, MPV's where courier insurance isn't even mentioned and GIT not required. How can the legitimate courier hope to compete

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

This scant regard for even the most basic level of what it is that makes a courier a courier and not merely someone driving around in their car is exactly what i refer to when i say this kind of approach is dumbng down our industry. Ruffle feathers it most certianly does, not because you've hit on a winning formula, but because you just don't see (or care) that what you are doing, or trying to do, is exactly what is killing this industry. Those that pay for courier insurance, for their VAN, and get GIT for that van can feel justifyingly peeved at those that target people with cars, MPV's where courier insurance isn't even mentioned and GIT not required. How can the legitimate courier hope to compete

It's not rocket science, my customers are booking cars, so I go and recruit courier cars. I think it's called supply and demand isn't it? Or am I supposed to go and find vehicles that my customers don't want or need?

Here's some help, in case I am not explaining myself well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplyanddemand

Cars that have NOT got courier insurance or Goods in Transit insurance, and are therefore driving illegally. If any were to be involved in an acident, their insurance would be null and void.

And less of the sarcasm Andrew, you're not talking to one of the fools you're trying to recruit, and you're not very good at it anyway.

You keep trying to be clever, and its not working

They book cars Andrew because you advertise them cheaper than vans, now that isn't rocket science either To explain just in case you missed it

They haven't come to you and asked for cars, you've offered it to them as a cheaper alternative to a van

In 15 years no one has asked me for a car because we're a courier company and courier companies use bikes and vans

Why is a car cheaper than a van?

Because your car drivers are using their personal cars and not insuring them accordingly

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Cars that have NOT got courier insurance or Goods in Transit insurance, and are therefore driving illegally. If any were to be involved in an acident, their insurance would be null and void.

Your very good at copying and pasting selective parts of my website and conveniently missing off parts you do not wish to mention, anyway let me save you the trouble:

As a self employed courier, it is your own responisbility to insure yourself for the purpose of using your own vehicle as a courier. Courier Expert only check your ‘Goods in Transit’ insurance (£10k cover needed) if you wish to carry our customers goods valued over £500.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Why is a car cheaper than a van?

Because using the vehicle you already own, is more cost effective owning a car and a van!

Or to put it another way, 1 vehicle costs less than 2 vehicles.

I thought you would have worked that one out by yourself, lol.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

You keep trying to be clever, and its not working

I thought it was working rather well :o)

No Andrew, that's the problem with the not so clever, they just THINK they're being clever, when they're not

Just to clarify i don't cut and paste anything from your website. I read it sure, then i comment on what i've read.

And just so as we both know what we're saying, to quote you Andrew " We only check your Goods In Transit"

If that isn't an admission that you allow uninsured drivers then maybe you'll explain quite what it is i miseed from your website

This is a very dangerous (literally) policy which I strongly suggest you look at

I think you missed this bit:

As a self employed courier, it is your own responisbility to insure yourself for the purpose of using your own vehicle as a courier.

No Andrew, didn't miss it, nowhere does it say your company has to see it, so they can easily bypass getting it and still work for you

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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What’s your USP? Our unique national network of our own vetted drivers. Many of our direct competitors rely on freight exchanges to cover most or all of their work, so having our very own network makes us quite unique, giving us far greater control over the service provided to our customers. We have certainly ruffled a few feathers in the industry, as we have taken business away from those who have been relying on freight exchanges alone. I think customer like and appreciate our unique proposition. What are the key elements for achieving a positive customer service experience? Automation and communication. Our automated communication process, keeps the customer informed at each stage of the booking, collection and delivery process. Are you actively looking to expand your operations? We are looking to firm up our mainland UK operation and concentrate on improving what we already do, rather than trying to conquer new markets. We are looking for more couriers to be part of our national courier network, to satisfy growing demand for our service. What challenges does your business face on an on-going basis? One of our biggest challenges is courier recruitment, we do have gaps in our network, which are currently filled by independent contractors. We need more of our own couriers to complete our UK network. Our other main challenge is dealing with negativity from direct competitors who have seen us do things differently, and rather than improving their own businesses to compete, would rather use negative tactics. Anyway, it’s a good problem to have

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said: Just to clarify i don't cut and paste anything from your website. I read it sure, then i comment on what i've read.

Is this not a copy and paste then?

No Andrew thats not from your website is it

Your one vehicle instead of two argument is just plain silly How long do you think someones family car is going to last doing courier work? Its a false economy Vans are made for the job, cars are not, But then you already know that really don't you

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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No Andrew, didn't miss it, nowhere does it say your company has to see it, so they can easily bypass getting it and still work for you

Your missing the point... They are self employed - responsible for their own insurance/vehicle maintenance/fuel/road tax/income tax/vat etc etc etc

My responsibility is to my customers, therefore I provide my own GIT or make sure sub-contractors are covered for my own customers goods.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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No Andrew thats not from your website is it

Now your splitting hairs, lol

Andrew stop it, you have a responsibility for the vehicles covering work for your customers, and to that end you should want to know that any vehicle is therefore insured correctly. You don't check, because you don't care

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Your one vehicle instead of two argument is just plain silly How long do you think someones family car is going to last doing courier work? Its a false economy Vans are made for the job, cars are not, But then you already know that really don't you

Nonsense, a car will last just as long as a van, if not longer. The build quality of a BMW is far higher than a Citroen Berlingo!

You don't check because you and i know that they couldn't afford it at the rates on offer

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

Why is a car cheaper than a van?

Because using the vehicle you already own, is more cost effective owning a car and a van!

Or to put it another way, 1 vehicle costs less than 2 vehicles.

I thought you would have worked that one out by yourself, lol.

Have you ever tried to source H&R for a car?

Its not cheaper to use their car, their first H&R will require a 20% deposit (which is likely to be more than they pay for the whole year SDP) before they even see your 50pplm jobs.

My responsibility is to my customers, therefore I provide my own GIT or make sure sub-contractors are covered for my own customers goods.

You have a moral responsibility to the general public to ensure the driver whom you facilitate work for are correctly insured.

Well said

Andrew you can't honestly sit there and say a car will last longer than a van?!

MK Bikes said:

You have a moral responsibility to the general public to ensure the driver whom you facilitate work for are correctly insured.

I am not the insurance police, nor the MOT or Tax police.

You may well find yourself culpable negligence in the event of a serious accident if it transpires the driver isn't correctly insured

And carrying your goods

Should have a chat section because these posts wont be here in the morning anyway

I see, so i am also responsible if the vehicle does not have an mot then and therefore not roadworthy?

And i suppose I am also responsible if the tyres are not legal?

This is exactly why we need to standardsie our industry, to stop people cutting corners

Utter nonsense!

Probably not but then it is not unreasonable to request to see insurance details by email, the roadworthy of a vehicle could only be ascertained by a vehicle inspect not a layman

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Andrew you can't honestly sit there and say a car will last longer than a van?!

I think there is little difference in terms of lengevity, anyway it's the couriers choice.

MK Bikes said:

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Probably not but then it is not unreasonable to request to see insurance details by email, the roadworthy of a vehicle could only be ascertained by a vehicle inspect not a layman

MOT certificates could be inspected just as easily as insurance. It does not make you responsible, just because you choose not to check it.

What is nonsense is the way you are playing with fire

Anyway, as Tony said, this thread won't be here for long, so just before it disappears i'm going to cut and paste it to my inbox... Lol

Nite all

I am sure you keep a scrap book, lol

Shame this thread was taken off topic and degenerated into bickering (by the usual suspects).